2nd Time Around - Guidance Please

[Gary]

A quick answer would be I am the witness of thoughts, feelings, actions.

[Armstrong]

OK, that's a reasonable answer.
Can you describe in terms of direct experience, how you wound up giving me that answer?
E.g. you read the question and inquired - the question appeared to you, probably as a thought.
In what form did the answer appear to you? A thought?
How did you get that thought turned into words, typed out and "submitted" such that I was able to read it? What were the experiences?
Answering this question will be similar - you'll have similar but (obviously) different experiences.

[Gary]

In what form did the answer appear to you? A thought?

A perception followed by a thought.

How did you get that thought turned into words, typed out and "submitted" such that I was able to read it? What were the experiences?

It just kinda happened.

[Armstrong]

Ok. Did you - the thing that reads these words - do it? If you don't do the thinking or the moving of the hands or the eyes or the fingers, what if anything did you do?

[Gary]

Observe/experience.

[Armstrong]

Neat.
Warning - your head might hurt if you do this one with effort.

Please try to do stuff like before, but really try to find what you called "the witness" of experience.

Before there was thoughts, but no thinker.
I get that there is witnessing. Is there a witness? Can you point to it?

[Gary]

Warning - your head might hurt if you do this one with effort.

Haha - my head has been hurting often since we began ;)

I will spend some time with this one and answer tomorrow. Thanks for today,

[Gary]

I get that there is witnessing. Is there a witness? Can you point to it?

No, I can't locate a witness-er.

[Armstrong]

Here's a question - you've probably been experiencing life a certain way most of your life. In words, it would be something like, you're a person, behind your eyes, going through life.

Lately, you've been experiencing reality differently - movement without a you that moves the body, seeing without a you that does the seeing, etc. In big terms, witnessing (of what's going on) without a "witnesser".

Is this something that just happens as you go through your day now? As in, you are doing a task, something happens and (for whatever reason) you think "look for the I" and then you switch modes?

If that isn't how it has been to do these exercises, can you explain what it has been like to experience your everyday life? Does anything seem different?

[Gary]

..you've probably been experiencing life a certain way most of your life. In words, it would be something like, you're a person, behind your eyes, going through life.

Yes.

Is this something that just happens as you go through your day now? As in, you are doing a task, something happens and (for whatever reason) you think "look for the I" and then you switch modes?

Pretty much. Though, it's not so much an obvious thought "look for the I" than a noticing that there isn't one - often accompanied by a laugh. The "being behind the eyes" has changed to more of a feeling of body awareness. I haven't noticed any/much 'getting lost in thought' for the past few days. Generally feeling more relaxed and less anxious.

[Armstrong]

Let's look at time, the past and the future.

In direct experience, is there such a thing as the past? Is there such a thing as the future? What is time?

The way you approach these questions is crucial.

Just look at how it went:

Q: OK, maybe now is a reasonable time to ask what "you" are, or what you still think you are, if you aren't the one doing the thinking, feeling, looking or even the moving (look back above). What do "you" actually "do" - in the sense of a "you" that "does" things to a world that isn't "you".

A: A quick answer would be I am the witness of thoughts, feelings, actions.

And then a bit later, after some more careful looking at what was going on, you answered:

A: No, I can't locate a witness-er.

How you look is very important; if you don't really look now, my job is just to ask you to keep looking again until you do.

So I'm asking you to describe what the "past" is like in direct experience and what the "future" is like in direct experience, and really see if you can experience anything that people like to call "time".

If you don't experience those things that's fine -- but I'm curious to hear what your experience is like. Please try to put it into words as best you can.

In closing, I want to thank you for being willing to put up with the discomfort that comes from challenging long-held assumptions. I hope your stomach and head aren't troubling you.

[Gary]

In closing, I want to thank you for being willing to put up with the discomfort that comes from challenging long-held assumptions. I hope your stomach and head aren't troubling you.

Thanks. No problem. It's been a huge pleasure so far.

So I'm asking you to describe what the "past" is like in direct experience and what the "future" is like in direct experience, and really see if you can experience anything that people like to call "time".

The past and future don't exist other than as memories, plans, etc. (thoughts). No time other than thoughts.

Do you want me to look more?

[Armstrong]

So does time exist, the way your nose does?

Do you ever experience time passing? Please describe what your direct experience of "time passing" is like - how do you know that "time is passing."

These are simple questions - it shouldn't take you a long time to answer. I don't need long answers. But you do have to look a little.

[Gary]

So does time exist, the way your nose does?

No. It's 'imaginary'.

Do you ever experience time passing? Please describe what your direct experience of "time passing" is like - how do you know that "time is passing."

A continual experiencing of whatever is happening now - no feeling of "time passing". Thoughts appear 'now' about the past or future, then a feeling of "time passing".

[Armstrong]

Awesome.

So say I tell you, "you don't have a self. This thing you've been calling 'I' your entire lifehas been a convenient concept, like time or the future or the present - but it doesn't exist."

Does anything come up?