The Gate

Hi ES

So, at any time, is Rosa anything other than a thought?

Ok, I think I have understood something over the past two days. Shifts happen.
The experience of thoughts or appearances as a whole are like water in a stream. Without water, no stream. So without awareness no thoughts… An appearance only becomes that once its recognised. A chair can only be a chair once the thought chair appears.
So, in direct experience, I notice this stream. It’s a stream of awareness in which all sorts of appearances appear. This is something I can access at all times during the day. The thought ‘Rosa’ is just another appearance in the stream. Just because it generally comes with all sorts of physical attachments, it seems central but is just an appearance like others are.
The experience is not so much the stream of thoughts, but the medium, the fullness of the stream. The idea of the thinker is another part of the stream. Nothing can ever be separate from that stream.
I noticed that the stream moves in different directions and dimension. It moves in and out simultaneously. Inside and outside are just another set of concepts. It kind of is present at all times and directions of flow are guided by what is paid attention too.
If not paying attention to anything in particular and the looker and observer is part of the flow, it’s quite an overwhelming experience. There is just awareness. The space in which it takes place is a perceptional space.
I can say clearly that Rosa, I, Me is just a thought. That makes sense now.
There is also no independent doer of actions.

What is happening at that moment? Just pay attention as you make various decisions as you go through your day.

From the experience of everything is a flow of awareness, asking the question, ‘who makes the decisions?’ is a contradiction in terms. There is no chooser, therefor another mechanism must be happening that filters out possibilities. Sitting here now, it’s a question of something coming in and going out of focus. A bit like appearances, they come, stay for a while and then disappear. The view shifts. All looked at is part of awareness. The wasps that I have been looking at for the past days flying in and out of their nest, become playful bodies, the word wasp comes up and goes again, it’s delightful, no separation between a ‘me’ and ‘them’. It kind of all reminds me of childhood days, when once perception was unassuming. Everything just was so easy.
This afternoon, I’ll be at work and decisions have to be made throughout the day. I’ll continue paying more attention to that then.

Rosa

Very good work!

First, is there any lack of clarity about whether or not there is an observer separate from the flow? If so, we should look into that more.

The next area to take a good look at is decision- making. We've started this already. Continuing to observe how the decision- making process goes on in everyday life is good. You can also set up some minor decision, like choosing to pick up a pen or a pencil, and watch for exactly when the decision is made, and where it comes from. Sometimes it's easier to get a good understanding of how things happen if you can look in a situation where there are fewer distractions.

ES

Hi ES

Thanks very much.

I have been looking into the decision making process and looked regarding the observer and will continue.

I'll be writing more tomorrow.

Rosa

Hi ES

Making decisions:
During a working day, I slip into the ‘I’ function and the ‘I and other’ view.
There is an awareness of choosing the bigger view. Settling into noticing the fullness of awareness, and experiencing again that everything is part of the flow. Its a moving in and out of that experience. I have experienced it as true, that makes it all easier.

Now, sitting at home, looking at decision making process. I pick up an item close to me. Just by looking at the item, a numerable amount of options are there. Thoughts were the item came from, what it seems to feel like, then it's a curiosity that makes me pick it up. By the time the item has been picked up it seems, that the decision to pick it up happened some time ago. It’s like another wave rolling out; that from it’s start carried the decision to pick it up without a ‘me’ knowing of it. Choices seem present all the time, not just when a choice has been made.

The observer seems a crux in this whole process. From the previous experience, knowing that there is no doer, no chooser, I could easily say, there is no observer. Though, that’s too easy.
The moment ‘Rosa’ is seen as a thought, the whole experience changes. The looking out from a central point becomes invalid. There seem to be just expressions. No idea to whether there is a purpose to these expressions. There is no-one who searches for meaning. There is looking/seeing. There is observing going on without a ‘me’. This somehow comes with a threshold. On one side it feels like freedom, on the other it seems like a loss of …There is no ‘me’, so, what is this all about? It's so overwhelmingly uneventful (says the 'I') and at the same time very attractive and deeply satisfying.
Beyond the threshold of the sense of loss its worth exploring a bit; resting more in the experience of the fullness of the flow.
I'm not sure if the making decision process is clear. I'll continue looking.

Rosa

During a working day, I slip into the ‘I’ function and the ‘I and other’ view.

What does this mean? What happens?

I'm not sure if the making decision process is clear. I'll continue looking.

Yes, keep looking in the course of your day-to-day experience, and also set up more decisions to make. Your intuition that decisions can be made before conscious thought realizes it is consistent with this scientific experiment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... 6S9OidmNZM

ES

Hi ES

RosaRohlfing wrote:
During a working day, I slip into the ‘I’ function and the ‘I and other’ view.

What does this mean? What happens?

There are different days at work. Generally work is about ensuring mine and others safety throughout a work day. There is far more to it, but lets just keep it simple.
There are thought processes that try to encompass all I need to know about an individual in order to make safe choices. There is a present amount of information available that has learned from past events.
So, I am left with a sense of resistance to relax into a day and trust…choices and competency.
There are times when I remind myself to come back to awareness and entring into the process that allow for the turning point of seeing, that Rosa is just a thought. There are times when work seems playful. Interactions can happen on different levels. Different currents are floating through interactions. I notice when interacting with others, I catch myself thinking that my colleagues are to a good amount just thoughts I have about them. When contact with colleagues is just experienced as it is, it adds a level of lifelines, fun. I can get engaged in a task and be happily and fully engaged.
This whole process is catching on throughout life. Again, it’s a bit like the bumpy road experience. Most of the time it’s a controller that takes over ensuring me of making sense, making safe choices and being respected.

Of course, it’s all much easier, sitting quietly at home, immersing into once present experience without stimuli one has to answer too, other than what is happening now.
In the end it’s just the busy mind, I can see that, the assumptions one has about the world that to easily create a separation and a false need to control.

Lets say, it takes a bit more practice to let awareness shine through, to see that the flow of appearances embedded in the ever presence of awareness is the same no matter whether sitting in meditation, driving a car or doing once daily work.

Re decisions:

Thanks, found the Youtube clip quite interesting.

I notice, that when feeling the flow of appearances as just that, letting go of the doer or the me, making decisions turn into a funny event. Picking up a phone or drinking some water all seem to have no clear start and end. Choice processes seem to turn into slow motion expressions. The bundle of possibilities are present at all times, maybe not consciously present at all times. Choices become unspecific events. If that makes sense. Satisfaction isn’t derived from a choice that is made rather than from the flow of awareness that is present.

I’ll be looking into what happens when at work more closely.

Rosa

Great observations about the decision- making process!

Remember the circle illusion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNe6fsaCVtI

Just because you know something is an illusion doesn't mean you can't get drawn back in to the deceptive appearance. The difference is that you know what is deceptive.

Are you ready for the final questions?

ES

Hi ES

Interesting to watch the Youtube clip again. I watch this differently now. The detail I did not fully appreciate when watching it the first time is that each ball really just follows a straight line. Always the same line. A thought is just what it is, a feeling just the same. In the complexity of expressions that does not change.

Final questions? Ok, lets see what they are…

Rosa

Yes, I like using this illusion as an illustration because even after you see that the balls are all moving in straight lines, it still looks like they're going in a circle. At least they do to me! The sense-of-self can be similar, still appearing to be there after the illusion has been seen through. But now you've seen how the things that make up the sense-of-self come and go on their own.

So, here are the final questions:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there
ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you seeit now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How
does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?

Once you've answered, I'll look at your answers and so will some of the other guides, and we'll come back with more questions if we think anything needs clarifying.

ES

Hi ES

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

I, me, self, Rosa is a construct. No, it does not and cannot and never existed as a separate entity. Nor will it in the future. Future, another concept. There is awareness. Nothing can exist outside of awareness. There is the flow, perceived as waves of awareness. Thoughts, feelings, sensations… are appearing and disappearing again. Nothing exists outside of the flow. Time is a construct, the flow is ever present.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion starts of with a thought or statement that might go like this: “ I’m a good person” or “I’m a bad person.” Immediately a feeling is present that sticks to the thought. Giving the thought credibility. Some body feeling feed back that gives the impression of an anchor, fixing the belief firmly in a felt construct. Memories come in, when this was perceived as true sticking to the thought-feeling complex. The more everything sticks together, the more the illusion seems convincing. Another thought, another feeling…and on and on it goes. Stories are created that give the impression of an inside and outside. Of a perceiver, doer.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this
dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It’s been great, going through this process and letting more and more go of the importance of content. The general feeling is an ongoing expansion in perception of awareness, that invites into lightness, calm, stillness… The ocean has many currents.
Life is so much richer. It’s great to be able to feel feelings without closing off. This process is about inclusion! Rather than learning a trick to get on with avoidance in a better way.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

There was a moment of an expansion. The expansion is still ongoing. A seeing of a bigger perspective. There is a river like flow, stories, thoughts feelings appearing like distorted light reflected on a river at night when the water surface is slightly wavy. The content of the story is so unimportant. Where ever I look it all looks the same. Light reflected. Without the river, no reflection.
All appears ‘to’ the river. The river does not know it. All just appears and disappears again.

5) Quote Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Things happen, they appear from somewhere. Choices, free will, making decisions, intentions are words for processes taking place without a me controlling anything. There is no one who does or decides. Rosa is an idea. An idea has no capacity to feel, think or do anything. It cannot be responsible for anything. Choices, possibilities that eventually are singled out from the flow of expression appear, eventually leading to a movement. i.e. eating some fruit. Fruit is seen in a bowl. The possibility appears to eat the fruit, hangs about, is present, a body in action picking up the fruit and starts eating. The possibility of not eating the fruit was there as well. The thought, ‘body in action’ made me pick up the bowl. Possibilities, choices are present whether noticed consciously or not. The choice ‘eating the fruit’, rather than not, seemed to have more presence. It even seemed as if it ‘travelled’ a long way or hovered around until eventually the fruit was eaten. Nothing appears ever quite still, unmovable.

6) Anything to add?

Many thanks to you for the support in this process and for your challenging questions!
I am very appreciative of the process and feel that it's just the beginning.
Many thanks again!

Rosa