The Gate

Hi Dridhamati,

At work so will be brief, but feeling very engaged.

'There are attempts' you say, if there's no “self” or “I”, who or what is attempting?

The thoughts, stories and emotional pathways ‘attempt’ to create a paradigm/perspective.

Jai Ananda wrote: Feeling that the more it is named the easier it will be to observe instead of immersed in it. Maybe this is not the right approach?
Could you expand a bit more on this please?

Being that there is no “self” or “I” there seems to be thoughts and emotions (habitual and conditional responses) with stories that engage the old paradigm/perspective. By observing them, naming them and not engaging will lessen the pull into these responses.

They [the patterns of habitual and conditional responses] are observed in DE and ... what's actually there?

If in DE there is nothing there but awareness.

With gratitude, Jai Ananda

Hi Jai Ananda,

The thoughts, stories and emotional pathways ‘attempt’ to create a paradigm/perspective.

Just to clarify: do the 'thoughts, stories and emotional pathways' hold the power to 'attempt' anything, or is this 'attempting' thing just another story unfolding?

Being that there is no “self” or “I” there seems to be thoughts and emotions (habitual and conditional responses) with stories that engage the old paradigm/perspective. By observing them, naming them and not engaging will lessen the pull into these responses.

Yes, very well observed. Thank you for the clarification.

If in DE there is nothing there but awareness.

OK. Two questions here:
1. Would there be 'anything' there, even if not observed in DE?
2. Again, just to clarify, what is this 'awareness'?

All the best
Dridhamati

Hi Dridhamati,

Jai Ananda wrote: The thoughts, stories and emotional pathways ‘attempt’ to create paradigm/perspective.
Dridhamati wrote: Just to clarify: do the 'thoughts, stories and emotional pathways' hold the power to 'attempt' anything, or is this 'attempting' thing just another story unfolding?

Hmmm . . . sitting and observing 'thoughts, stories and emotional pathways' and they do not have the ability to ‘attempt’ anything, but it feels like ‘energy’ . . . is that a concept or story?

Jai Ananda wrote: If in DE there is nothing there but awareness.
OK. Two questions here:
Dridhamati wrote: 1. Would there be 'anything' there, even if not observed in DE?
2. Again, just to clarify, what is this 'awareness'?

Clarification: ‘anything’ means from past post – patterns of habitual and conditional responses.
1. Not sure, yet it feels like an energetic experience – like there is energy there.
2. Awareness = observation in the present moment.

Sitting here - still not sure about this energy or if it is nothing, but doesn't it have to be something to experience? A bit puzzled and it is late so until tomorrow . . .

With gratitude, Jai Ananda

Hi Jai Ananda,

Hmmm . . . sitting and observing 'thoughts, stories and emotional pathways' and they do not have the ability to ‘attempt’ anything, but it feels like ‘energy’ . . . is that a concept or story?
1. Not sure, yet it feels like an energetic experience – like there is energy there.
Sitting here - still not sure about this energy or if it is nothing, but doesn't it have to be something to experience? A bit puzzled and it is late so until tomorrow.

Yes, it does 'feel' that there is 'something'.
People give this 'something' different names: energy, awareness, presence, consciousness, life, Reality, emptiness, Big Mind, the Divine, God, Allah, The Beloved, etc.
As always all these words have to be taken very lightly, as pointers, NOT a reality in themselves.

This inquiry is now opening up whole new vistas, and feeling puzzled is very natural.
Yet in direct experience, where is this puzzlement? Isn't “feeling puzzled” just another thought, idea, concept describing what is essentially a sensation?
This is why, when faced with this mystery that has been given so many names, the suggestion comes to:
simply bask in the unadorned beauty of experience. Clearly seeing that there is just what is.

Clarification: ‘anything’ means from past post – patterns of habitual and conditional responses.
2. Awareness = observation in the present moment.

Thank you for these.

All the best
Dridhamati

Hi Dridhamati,

Dridhamati wrote: Yes, it does 'feel' that there is 'something'.
People give this 'something' different names: energy, awareness, presence, consciousness, life, Reality, emptiness, Big Mind, the Divine, God, Allah, The Beloved, etc.
As always all these words have to be taken very lightly, as pointers, NOT a reality in themselves

For clarification – “Yes, it does 'feel' that there is 'something’.
Is this ‘it/something’ the sense/experience of the presence of life that has been labeled various names: energy, awareness, presence, consciousness, life, Reality, emptiness, Big Mind, the Divine, God, Allah, The Beloved, etc.?

Dridhamati wrote: This inquiry is now opening up whole new vistas, and feeling puzzled is very natural.
Yet in direct experience, where is this puzzlement? Isn't “feeling puzzled” just another thought, idea, concept describing what is essentially a sensation?

Yes, so easy to label sensations, but when looked at they are just habitual ‘word’ responses to an experience. I suppose sometimes these labels are necessary to communicate. Is that true? Is there another way?

Dridhamati wrote: This is why, when faced with this mystery that has been given so many names, the suggestion comes to: simply bask in the unadorned beauty of experience. Clearly seeing that there is just what is.

There is a lightness and easiness with ‘basking in the unadorned beauty of experience.’ Treasuring these moments.

With gratitude, Jai Ananda

Hi Jai Ananda,

For clarification – “Yes, it does 'feel' that there is 'something’.
Is this ‘it/something’ the sense/experience of the presence of life that has been labeled various names: energy, awareness, presence, consciousness, life, Reality, emptiness, Big Mind, the Divine, God, Allah, The Beloved, etc.?

Thank you for the question.
“it” was just the indefinite pronoun, pointing to nothing, used for grammar's need.
“something” is what points to what is felt, what has been labelled various names.
The statement could be rephrased thus: a feeling arises that there is 'something'.

Yes, so easy to label sensations, but when looked at they are just habitual ‘word’ responses to an experience. I suppose sometimes these labels are necessary to communicate. Is that true? Is there another way?

Indeed, words, labels, concepts are necessary to communicate. Very well put.
The original question (“where is this puzzlement...”) was one of those questions used to look at the realisation that arose in/with Jai Ananda, and ferret out possible misunderstandings, odd views, etc.

There is a lightness and easiness with ‘basking in the unadorned beauty of experience.’ Treasuring these moments.

Yes, again very well put.

Now there is a series of little questions, which are very useful to get an idea of how far we've travelled. I know you'll be away this weekend, but there's no rush. Please answer them as and when possible. Here goes:

As always, in direct experience:

Have you been able to find, a “self” that is the ‘experiencer’?

Or a “self” that is the doer, or can control what happens?

Or a “self” that ‘makes’ decisions?

Or a “self” who ‘does the thinking’?

Is the “body” just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinaesthetic)?

Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this “self”?

Is there a “self” ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?

Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the “self” is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

And finally:

Are there any doubts about seeing through the illusion of “separate self”?

All the best
Dridhamati

Hi Dridhamati,

Wonderful questions. At this moment there seems like a simple answer - there is no self, nor separation from experience, or the world.

Yet, I recently observed that while looking at some pictures of old HS friends just a few moments ago, there were judgments arising and a creation of separation of ‘them and me’. . . and at the same time while observing these thoughts and stories - past habitual labeling of judgments creating alienation, I smiled knowing that what was arising were stories and that there is not a 'them and me'. The truth is that there may be a moment we will be together physically and it will be a new experience in that moment.

Not sure about my response and would like time to really explore and experience and thoroughly answer your questions. I head out tomorrow morning and back Monday night. I will try to check in and at the very least, step back, observe and experience the next few days.

With gratitude, Jai Ananda

Hi Jai Ananda,

Have a great weekend with your friends. And don't worry if you can't check in.

All the best
Dridhamati

Hi Dridhamati,

Back from my travels. This inquiry helped this past weekend. Excited to get going again. Heading to bed then have meetings in morning, but will respond sometime tomorrow (might be in the evening).

with gratitude, Jai Ananda

Hi Dridhamati,

Responding to a few of the questions. For some reason the question about the body stopped me as there are health issues that make the “body” feel more than a thought label. . . would like to DE with this more.

Have you been able to find, a “self” that is the ‘experiencer’?

In DE I am not able to find a self or any separation in the experiencing or as an experiencer.

Or a “self” that is the doer, or can control what happens?

No, there is no one who is the doer or controller. It appears that there is an unfolding of moments that happen.

Or a “self” that ‘makes’ decisions? Or a “self” who ‘does the thinking’?

Decisions and thinking happen. Sometimes the thinking helps form a decision, but there is no self there.

Feeling tired and slowly embracing this process again. Yet, there is an experience of lightness and joy these past days that I attribute to this.

with gratitude, Jai Ananda

Hi Jai Ananda,

For some reason the question about the body stopped me as there are health issues that make the “body” feel more than a thought label. . . would like to DE with this more.

Take all the time you need.

In DE I am not able to find a self or any separation in the experiencing or as an experiencer.
No, there is no one who is the doer or controller. It appears that there is an unfolding of moments that happen.

Thank you for the clarity of these first answers.

...Sometimes the thinking helps form a decision..

Would you say that this was observed in DE or that it is an inference, a logical deduction?

Yet, there is an experience of lightness and joy these past days that I attribute to this.

There's joy here at reading all this.

All the best
Dridhamati

Hi Dridhamati,

Another late night so a quick follow up. Hope to spend more time soon on this inquiry. Been side tracked with health issue since back.

Jai Ananda wrote:...Sometimes the thinking helps form a decision..
Dridhamati wrote: Would you say that this was observed in DE or that it is an inference, a logical deduction?

Actually in DE the decision seems to almost proceed any thought. Almost as if the thought follows and takes credit for the decision.

For longer range (future? planned?) decision it is an inference, a collection of observations followed by a logical deduction . . . yet as I type this, the true decision happens at the moment.

With gratitude, Jai Ananda

Hi Jai Ananda,

Been side tracked with health issue since back.

Take care. And again: no hurry.

Actually in DE the decision seems to almost proceed any thought. Almost as if the thought follows and takes credit for the decision.
For longer range (future? planned?) decision it is an inference, a collection of observations followed by a logical deduction . . . yet as I type this, the true decision happens at the moment.

That is also the experience here.
Thank you for confirming that.

All the best,
Dridhamati

Hi Dridhamati.

Is the “body” just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinaesthetic)?

This particular question is challenging. I would like to explore this before moving on to the next questions (which actually seem easier!).

‘Body” just another thought label – Yes, it is a label for a presence of energy experienced through sensation (sometimes vibrational-like feeling) with fluids, cells and vessels, organs, etc. interconnected and working together. The body is a thought label to experience and move through space along with other energetic beings, trees, etc. which are also thought labels.

Not sure of my response, but exploring.

With gratitude, Jai Ananda

Hi Jai Ananda,

This particular question is challenging. I would like to explore this before moving on to the next questions (which actually seem easier!).

"self"/"I" are usually so identified with the body, that finding this question challenging is only natural.

Not sure of my response, but exploring.

Follow your experience, follow your 'heart'.

All the best,
Dridhamati