The Gate

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Hello Carolyn,

Is the illusion of 'I' a tool? If so, who wields it? What would an entity that 'does' this be needing with an extra self?

From it I have the impression of free choice
.. you are speaking here as if there is a 'you' that 'has an illusory self' but how is that possible? How can there be an I 'behind' the illusion of I from which 'I have the illusion of free choice'?


Yes I see and understand your point. This seems an essential point. Its like a mirror reflecting a mirror reflecting a mirror........ with no end. I can't explain it but the experience is overwhelming.

Essential. Yes. One can only point towards it. Can one even 'know' it in the ordonary sense? Perhaps that is why we cannot find words?

It's the 'no end' bit that is overwhelming, isn't it? Where does this leave the 'I'?

Over the last few days I have lost count of the number of people asking what has changed..... sitting in a chair in a wood, surrounded by friends....... being.... in the moment ... at peace but aware of minute sensations and reactions and thoughts and patterns.... just being.

Indescribable, unexplainable.

This sounds interesting. Did they ask because you had told them something had changed? Were you able to describe this change to them?

Other guides here will be interested to take a look at your answers to the six questions and may have further questions for you. This may take a day or two but I will get back to you about this. In the mean time I'd be interested if you have thoughts about what I have said today?

Very best wishes Carolyn,

Jonathan

Hello Jonathan

Hello Carolyn,

Essential. Yes. One can only point towards it. Can one even 'know' it in the ordonary sense? Perhaps that is why we cannot find words?

It's the 'no end' bit that is overwhelming, isn't it? Where does this leave the 'I'?

Yes definitely an experience, tiny in one way, infinitely large in another... ungraspable, not naturally accessible with words.

This sounds interesting. Did they ask because you had told them something had changed? Were you able to describe this change to them

?

No I've not said anything. I've not described anything. Comments like 'you seem different', 'you look radiant', 'serene????',

It feels like a letting go into the wonders, pleasant and unpleasant, of now and here. But that sounds corny.
Highly sensitized, disorientated,


Thank you
Carolyn

I went to a concert last week.
A song by Bob Chilcott called 'High Flight' resonated with this experience.
Carolyn

Hello Carolyn,

I just remembered, I meant to ask you about something you said in answer to question 5. We should look at this before.anything else.. You said:

What am I responsible for? I’ve sat with this one….not sure I can answer it. ……. Perception of choice, perception of control, …. Perception of free will…… all ‘imagined’ or ‘cognitive constructs’ …..
Nothing to be responsible for if I had fully integrated this ‘understanding’ fully into my life, body, mind, emotions.
But I haven’t.

Is 'no-self' an experience that can be integrated ?

What would be 'doing the integration'?

We have looked at body, thought, emotions. Right here and now, is an 'I' found anywhere in body, thought or emotions?



Thanks,

Jonathan.

I'm not sure what I meant by this.


Is 'no-self' an experience that can be integrated ?
My experience is often of dwelling in a world without limits in time or space, continual change, interconnectivity. Each 'thing' connected and dependent on a host of others. This space is increasingly pervasive but 'self' rears its head sometimes. I refer to this situation as 'non integration'. I'm sure there is much better vocabulary.

What would be 'doing the integration'?
The concept of self is, by its presence, hindering an experience of free flow.

We have looked at body, thought, emotions. Right here and now, is an 'I' found anywhere in body, thought or emotion

Right now. Sitting in the chair only experience. However, I notice desire to express myself reaches persistently for the protection of the concept of self.



Helpful?
Carolyn

Hi Carolyn,

Yes, thank you. Once the other guides have had a chance to take a look at your replies I'll get in touch. :.)



Best wishes,

Jonathan.

Hello Carolyn,


One of the other guides has suggested a few things that are worthwhile looking at together. These emerged as questions when reading through your answers to the six questions.

What is 'past experience'?

You said

What I was trying to convey was that past experiences only exist in the way that they affect present conditions.

Do you believe this is actually true or does it only appear this way?

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You say

'What am I responsible for? I’ve sat with this one….'.

You seem unsure. Can you give me an idea of something that it is clear that you are responsible for?

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Now, would you do a little experiment to do with 'choice'?

Pick an arm - Now raise it in the air.

What, (in DE) chose that arm?
Is there a 'you' here that chose it?
Is there a 'you' here that chooses anything?
Has there ever been a 'you' to choose anything?

Let me know how you get on with these.

Best wishes,

Jonathan.

Hello Carolyn,


One of the other guides has suggested a few things that are worthwhile looking at together. These emerged as questions when reading through your answers to the six questions.

What is 'past experience'?

You said

What I was trying to convey was that past experiences only exist in the way that they affect present conditions.

Do you believe this is actually true or does it only appear this way

?y



Believe? Not a word that sits comfortably.
It appears that past experiences affect present conditions but this is only a perception.

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You say

'What am I responsible for? I’ve sat with this one….'.

You seem unsure. Can you give me an idea of something that it is clear that you are responsible for?

I cannot identify any specific action that I am responsible for. But there is something about being open and receptive to DE.

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Now, would you do a little experiment to do with 'choice'?

Pick an arm - Now raise it in the air.

What, (in DE) chose that arm?
Is there a 'you' here that chose it?
Is there a 'you' here that chooses anything?
Has there ever been a 'you' to choose anything

?


No DE of choice. It happened.... or did it?
I have the experience of arm rising (seeing, feeling). I have the thought that my arm is rising in response to your request. All I can say is no DE of choice now. Or in past.


Best regards
Carolyn

Hello again,

Thanks for your clear answers.

"But there is something about being open and receptive to DE."

Is that something you are responsible for? Or does it 'just happen'?

There may be more questions from guides in the next couple of days but your answers have been great.


Best wishes,

Jonathan.

Thank you.
Oh it clearly just happens!
Real enjoyment in these questions.
Carolyn

Hello Carolyn,

One of the guides has asked

Is it that there is an "I" having experiences, or are experiences just happening.?



Regards,
Jonathan.

Hello,
Experiences are happening. Not sure about the 'just'.

Carolyn

Hello again Carolyn,

Experiences are happening. Not sure about the 'just'.

Need to check. Is that because you are uncertain or reluctant about whether or not an 'I' is having experiences?


Another question just in from another guide:

'Can interconnectedness be seen in DE? In DE, is anything a condition for anything else, or conditioned by anything else?'

Thank you,


Jonathan.

No. Oh dear! No reluctance at all. Quibbling about the need for the word 'just'.
"experiences are happening' rather than 'experiences are just happening'.
Sorry.


'Can interconnectedness be seen in DE? In DE, is anything a condition for anything else, or conditioned by anything else
That's a great question. Until it was asked I hadn't thought about the 'nature' of 'interconnectedness'. But of course interconnectedness arises. In DE.....? ...... ..... ? No direct experience of interconnectedness. This feels a bit scary.

So nothing a condition for anything, or conditioned by anything.

C