Is there anybody to help me to cross the Gate?

[Mani]

Hi Fred,

what I wrote about I-notion making surviving easier was just a theory (not a true statement). My thoughts are really very busy with this incredible fact that the humankind has been living through hundreds of thousands years dipped in this Great Lie based on false I. Mind created the theory about defense strategy due to evolutionary needs.

But it doesn't mean that this "I" is still needed. The next theory is (attention! only theory) that the humankind is ready nowadays to threw this falsehood away. (I'm sorry, just had to share with you, mind can't stop thinking as you know!)

The words I, me, Manana "I" refer to the mind functioning in the body, to the swirl of emotions, sensations, thoughts, memories, conditionings clinging to each other as if there was some entity in the middle of this. While they are all pulled up by the empty place inside. Something like inner gravity…? (just another thought-theory)

World is fantastic!

Manana

[Freddi]

Hi Manana

humankind has been living through hundreds of thousands years dipped in this Great Lie based on false I.

the humankind is ready nowadays to threw this falsehood away.

Nice stories. What can we actually know for sure about these, from experience? Which bit of it is ACTUALLY true? Look around you. Where is ‘humankind’? Where are these hundreds of thousands of years? Do you see them?

The words I, me, Manana "I" refer to the mind functioning in the body

Are you a mind functioning in a body? Or is ‘I’ a label for the emotions, sensations, thoughts, conditioning? What is below the label? Is it the ‘empty space’ you mention? Is there anything at all, behind this concept ‘I’? Have a look, what do you see?

Would you like to have another stab at explaining the illusion of the separate self, to someone who has never heard about it but is curious. No concept. No theory (no, not even a small one ;-)) Just your own words, imagine you are talking to a child.

Warm wishes,

Fred

[Mani]

Hi Fred,

as for "humankind" I said it was only a theory, so let's leave these stories alone.

Now as for words. This is a language problem. I thought you were asking me about the meaning of the WORDS. We must use them because we don't have another more adequate language version so far. No, I am not a mind functioning in the body - there is no I. But the word "I" exists and we refer it to something. I just wanted to explain in which circumstances we use this word. Sometimes we refer it to memories, sometimes to thoughts, sometimes to emotions although I am not neither thought neither emotion, "I" don't exist.

The most difficult issue now – explaining the illusion of the separate self (without even slightest theory!).
We are used to identify with somebody who doesn't exist. As watching a very good film and identifying with its hero, with his/her adventures or heartbreaking experiences. But then you leave the cinema, go out to the real world and clearly understand that you had to do with the fiction only. With the very touching hero named Manana, sometimes feeling disadvantaged, sometimes being happy. We must get rid of this identification. That's all.

What do you think, Fred?

Manana

[Freddi]

Hi Manana,

as for "humankind" I said it was only a theory, so let's leave these stories alone

Too right, let’s leave these stories alone. I’ll continue driving a bus through them as you bring them out, though … until you do it yourself.

Now as for words. This is a language problem. I thought you were asking me about the meaning of the WORDS. We must use them because we don't have another more adequate language version so far. No, I am not a mind functioning in the body - there is no I. But the word "I" exists and we refer it to something. I just wanted to explain in which circumstances we use this word. Sometimes we refer it to memories, sometimes to thoughts, sometimes to emotions although I am not neither thought neither emotion, "I" don't exist.

Thanks! ;-)

We must get rid of this identification.

How do we get rid of an illusion? Once seen, did you have to get rid of the illusion of Santa?
Who or what has a preference to ‘get rid of it’? Once seen that it is an illusion, is there anything wrong with it? No quick answer, Manana, take your time, look deeply into this.

Warm wishes,

Fred

[Mani]

Hi Fred,

what a curse! I was weeding the lawn and contemplating this "preference to get rid of identification". It's hopeless, going round and round…
First one comes to conclusion, that this bloody "I" is only mind's creation and then the same mind is making appearance that there is somebody to get rid of this I-identification! Ok, there is nobody to get rid of anything. What a tricky business...
But to tell you the truth I would like to know, quite seriously, whom are you guiding here? Is this the mind which is being pulled by The Guide to see the truth about itself?

Please, answer this question
Manana

[Freddi]

Hi Manana

Good, honest answer. I am really enjoying your openness to this investigation. Thank you.

But to tell you the truth I would like to know, quite seriously, whom are you guiding here? Is this the mind which is being pulled by The Guide to see the truth about itself?

I’m only holding up a mirror here ;-)
Same question to number 1, please. Consider it. Let me know what you find. Look. Is there a ‘mind’? Is there a ‘guide’? What is actually there? Is there any more than squiggles on a screen, in your present experience? What about the rest, the story about the mind being guided, where is that?
So the question is: Who or what is being guided here? Have a good look, tell me what you find.

Warm wishes,

Fred

[Mani]

Hi Fred,

is it possible to jump out of this magic circle?
I was looking in despair at the computer screen and wondering; what is actually here? So, there were squiggles seen by eyes, then the mind reading the meaning of squiggles, pondering all the questions and then dictating hands to write correct answer (correct in mind's terms, of course). This is the present experience. And then there exists the background of ideas and concepts as…guiding by guide which is clinging to this specific experience. Can we say that even this concept caused somehow the sequence of specific experiences? Sitting at the desk, opening LU Forum, reading Freddi's mail and answering it?

Did I miss something?

Manana

[Freddi]

Hi Manana

I was looking in despair at the computer screen and wondering; what is actually here? So, there were squiggles seen by eyes, then the mind reading the meaning of squiggles, pondering all the questions and then dictating hands to write correct answer (correct in mind's terms, of course). This is the present experience.

That is present experience, but why the despair? Is there a Manana who needs to ‘get’ something or somewhere? You said that Manana was like a touching character in a movie. Is there a preference for this fictitious character to see through any illusion? Is that a possibility?

Can we say that even this concept caused somehow the sequence of specific experiences? Sitting at the desk, opening LU Forum, reading Freddi's mail and answering it?

Can a concept cause anything to happen? Is there definite, tangible link between a concept and a sequence of experiences? All we know from our experience is what you wrote, squiggles on a screen, sitting on a chair, sound of typing, hands moving. The rest is labelling, ‘storyfying’. Does the storyfying ever affect what is actually happening?

Ok, there is nobody to get rid of anything. What a tricky business...

It is a ‘tricky business’, for the mind. Because thoughts cannot deliver this. We can’t think our way to liberation. How could we get out of the ‘trap’ or the 'magic circle' (again, your words) with the very tool that created it?
You have read many books, Manana, as we all have, and many stories, concepts and expectations have arisen out of that. What I would like you to do today is this: pick up a book, any one of them. Don’t open it. Just hold it for a while, feel the texture, look at its colours, smell it. Look at the writing, the shapes of the letters, the graininess of the paper, as if you had never seen a book before, as if you had just landed from Mars. That’s it! Any meaning that this book has for you, you have given it.

Where are you at, Manana? Would you say you have seen through the illusion of the separate self? What answer comes up naturally when you read this question? A ‘yes’ or a ‘no’?

Warm wishes,

Fred

[Mani]

Hi Fred,

Why the despair? Because there is such a feeling. Sometimes. It is connected with the trap, with the possibility that there is no way out… Manana is not needed to feel despair. It's just a feeling and it's real. And there is another strong feeling – the desire to see through the illusion. Do you think this desire is fake?

I am not sure about the concept causing or not causing some behaviors. Maybe not the present experience, but specifically – behavior. Can't we say that some thought, for instance, the idea of Guiding causes some behaviors, like sitting at the table, opening the LU site and so on. It's like action and reaction, isn't it?

I had the exercise with the book. I took it, felt the graininess of the paper, looked at its colours as if I came from Mars. Very nice experience. But how could I possibly give this book any meaning before (as you wrote) if there is no me?

I don't know, Fred, where am I at, honestly. I know there is the illusion of the separate self, but I can't see through it. No.

Warm regards
Manana

[Freddi]

Hi Manana

I had the exercise with the book. I took it, felt the graininess of the paper, looked at its colours as if I came from Mars. Very nice experience. But how could I possibly give this book any meaning before (as you wrote) if there is no me?

See how the mind quickly throws up a smokescreen, when it is faced with the obvious and plain evidence of WHAT IS? It picks up an argument on grammatical issues. When I use ‘I’ or ‘you’, it is because our language is constructed that way, but you already do know that.
I could also have said ‘any meaning, interpretation, etc, that this book has is added on top of experience and is totally surplus to requirement for Life to continue to unfold in the most perfect way’.
That throwing up of a smokescreen, is it anything but Life playing at a sense of self, persisting and resisting and saying something like ‘yes, but not yet’? Let me know what comes up over this.

I know there is the illusion of the separate self, but I can't see through it. No.

Three questions here:
1) Could you tell me the difference between ‘I know there is the illusion of the separate self’ and ‘I see through the illusion of the separate self’?
2) What would ‘seeing through the illusion’ be like? Is it what someone else said? Is it a world without thinking? How might that feel, different from what is experienced now?
3) By ‘knowing’ do you mean ‘worked out intellectually’ or ‘knowing in my guts’? What about these pointing exercises, where you could not find any separate entity doing, controlling, deciding etc?

And there is another strong feeling – the desire to see through the illusion.

This is the important question for you to contemplate today: what is it about Life that is not good enough? What needs to be added? When we ‘desire’, we are saying to Life that it has to be different, that we don’t want it as it is and we know better what is good. Take a walk outside, look at all that is happening, the wiggling, the movement of Life unfolding, and ask yourself ‘in this moment, what needs to be added’?

Really spend time with these questions, Manana. Observe how the mind puts up some ‘yes, but’ arguments, acknowledge them and keep looking at the questions. Let me know what comes up.

Warm wishes,

Fred

[Mani]

Hi Fred,

Yes, I agree with "mind throwing up a smokescreen" and a sense of self persisting and resisting so persistently that there comes kind of boredom and annoyance out of helplessness… What should I do in such a moments?

Answers for your three questions:

1. The difference is as between knowing and feeling

2. I don't know how might that feel until this new feeling won't come. Yes, I can sense this "lightness" as I told you before while having present experience exercises but this premonition disappears, it's absent during all the day.

3. By knowing I mean worked out intellectually, yes. And as for pointing exercises – see above.

The problem is not, I suppose, there is something about Life, that is not good enough. The problem is I don't have the permanent access to this Life which is good enough. These are only moments of having a premonition of what you call Life.

Best regards

Manana

[Freddi]

Hi Manana

I don't know how might that feel until this new feeling won't come

Please just answer this: Describe in detail all your feelings right now. How do you know that this is not it?

Warm wishes,

Fred

[Mani]

Hi Fred,

feelings just now? Uncertainty, hesitation, curiosity (it's almost permanently there), joy (when I look out at the blooming trees), and some deep feelings which never disappear like love to my sons and other, not very positive – some "unsatisfaction" which is always covered by other feelings and sensations but deeply present somewhere underneath it all. I should feel as well insecurity caused by my unstable financial and emotional (within private life) situation but I just found that there is nothing like this inside.

I don't feel any pain nor suffering. I am so so, I would say.

Best regards
Manana

[Freddi]

Thanks Manana

Look deeply into this. You have described the feelings experienced right now. How do you know that this is not it?

Warm wishes

Fred

[Mani]

If this is it, Fred, there is no point to communicate with LU any more... But I suppose this is not it because I don't feel any tangible change.

Warm regards
Manana