Just seen through the self!

[Bill]

I think it is because I can't find a thing or place that I am that 'I' keep hanging on to the old reference point 'me'!
I thought I would feel or know that I am presence or awareness. Seems like awakened people do.

Hello.
Again and again you keep referring back to this expectation of needing something 'different' to be, other than what is here right now. It will never work.
Can you just drop these expectations? They are in your way.
There will never be anything other than what is here right now.
Wanting 'more' is the trap. What you've been searching for has always been right here.

Yes, thoughts are not going to 'solve' this.
Why is that?
Well for one, its not solvable. There is no answer.
There's only whats here, this moment.
Yes, seeing, hearing touching, sensing, and yes thinking also is in that. It's part of what's here.

You've read the forum some and know what we mean when we say that to LOOK, is maybe the
best pointer we have. To LOOK, does not mean 'to understand'. It means to look with all your senses
at what is going on this moment, using vision, hearing, sensing, feeling, and yes even thinking.

Can you LOOK?
What's here right now?
What's not here?

[Henrik70]

Thansk Bill for all the patience.
It's beginning to sink in.
All the accounts of enlightenment that I've read have undouptedly made me expect something more. It is a little dissapointing for the mind that this is it. But I can see there is no further to go (only if 'I' listen to the mind again that says I'm not there).
I am here...it is NOW, always...thoughts come and go...actions happen but I can't find a someone in here.
Reading more books doesn't feel appealing...it s all here. AND more thinking wont help.

I am ready for the final questions!

Very very grateful!

Henrik

[Bill]

Yes, it seems that the dropping of seeking happens when this is seen....
It can be tricky though, as all we've read and heard tells us that there is this 'other' state....
and then finally it dawns on us as you've said above... "Reading more books doesn't feel appealing...it s all here. AND more thinking wont help"

OK here they are, take your time and give each your full attention.
You can do half at a time if you'd like... whatever suits you.
Glad you stuck with this!

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts, and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before?
Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from recent experience.

6) Anything to add?

[Henrik70]

Hi Bill, I write back soon...work is demanding my full attention for two more Days. Love the questions! Thanks!

[Henrik70]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

No, there are just thoughts, feelings and other impressions that come together and are acted out spontaneously.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts, and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

There is a reference to a me in the body that does actions, seeing, hearing, thinking etc. This is so accepted that we don't question it. A thought appears "I'm going to write to Bill now" and if the conditions are right another thought appears that says "Now is good" followed by actions like typing etc. This is a sequence of happenings that doesn't actually need a self or an entity inside the body to happen. Thoughts and actions appear spontaneously with no controller behind them.
"I can sit down now and think of elephants" is a thought and the act of doing that happens as a reaction to that thought and a feeling of self, a controller, appears...but no controller is there.

[Henrik70]

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before?
Please report from the past few days.

The process was very slow for me and the "final" seeing through very subtle...but I notice that thought have less importance to me now. The self is seen to be a sort of thought mechanism constantly looping back to itself (a reference point with no substance...a practical device for communication.) and in doing so it 'strengthens' itself.
I can see how often these thoughts are believed to be about me, but now that is let go of much more often as it is seen to be a mechanical loop.
Awareness doesn't seem to be so personal anymore. It was very much "my" awareness before.
I am not so interested in spiritual books anymore.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I think it became clear that I couldn't know myself into this. I can only be being...not know being. I am being already, what is there to know. But my mind was very busy trying to know this for years. The "knower" is a big part of the "self" it seems. It wants to know...that's how it exists. Not knowing is lighter, freer.
Whatever happened doesn't seem to be because of me or what I did but because of Life or all things everywhere!
Sometimes all things seem to have the same 'flavor' or substance.

[Henrik70]

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from recent experience.

Seems like spontaneous happenings in the brain...followed by a belief in a self doing it...a thought "I did this" and maybe some feelings further enhancing the sense of self.
Someone says "Shall we go to the Cinema" and my system reacts to that...not a me in the body (whatever that is...lately I can't define what this earlier so convincing self is!)
Whatever is responsible must be genes and how one's brain is set up. I'm aware that would sound crazy to some!

6) Anything to add?

Well, I'm still pretty much how I used to be...but now I know that's OK, awakening is not about improving yourself!
I am very grateful for your work Bill! What a good site this is and that we can get this pointing for free by ordinary people. Thank you so much. Can we keep in touch?

[Bill]

Thanks Henrik for you full attention to these questions...
I will send this up for the other guides to look at
They may have a question or two.. will get back to you here when I have something..

We have several FB groups that we use for what we loosely call aftercare and community.
I hope to see you in there!

Bill

[Bill]

Henrik,

Thanks again.. one person has a question for you.
Will just copy and paste what they've written.

In Question #5, 2 things:

1. He has not yet answered the question 'what are you responsible for?'.
2. "Whatever is responsible must be genes and how one's brain is set up": does this imply a personal responsibility? Yes or No.

if you could expound on this a bit...

additional questions by another guide:
can you please ask Henrik the following questions?

"What a good site this is and that we can get this pointing for free by ordinary people."

1) Who are these ordinary people?
2) How does it feel to be liberated ?

[Henrik70]

1. He has not yet answered the question 'what are you responsible for?'.
2. "Whatever is responsible must be genes and how one's brain is set up": does this imply a personal responsibility? Yes or No.

As I see it there is a strong feeling of being responsible for actions and thoughts, but as I have been looking at this there seems to be only thoughts, reactions arising out of nowhere and actions follow equally spontaneously...no controller involved...I can't find personal responsibility.

1) Who are these ordinary people?
2) How does it feel to be liberated ?

I use common language...I meant ordinary people in the appearance ...but there are no people, only one essence.
Can't find a feeling...it's more a clarity and simplicity. Don't feel very different from Before!

[Bill]

Henrik, your answers are clear and thorough... I ran this by our other guides and they all confirm.
Congratulations! You'll soon be blue on the forum and a little more of the website has opened up to you.
Its been great pointing for you. Glad you kept at this even when things seemed to stall.

We have several groups on Facebook and you can also use those for learning about guiding
if that's something you want to consider and further discussion.

Check out this: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=696
There are some links and info to other sites associated with LU.

Life goes on as it does.
If there's any more questions, please ask.
I will leave this thread open for awhile if you have any further questions
or if you want to make any more comments.
It will be moved to the archived section so look for it there.
It's been great working with you!

Namaste,
Bill