The Gate

Sorry! I somehow did not get notified of this last post.

ok, so... yes. All of that stuff still comes up. It's possible it will die down, but does it actually matter that it's there? Look into it. Does it belong to a 'you'?

Crankiness comes up. Check for the "I" who is cranky. Is one there? If not, then does the crankiness anchor anywhere in reality?

All states are fleeting. Your instinct to keep checking for the facts of reality are good ones. States will come and go, but the freedom is in seeing that if there seems to be a chord, tape, or glue sticking it to something or someone, a simple check for what it's sticking to reveals the nature of reality.

Look right now... is there an emotion appearing? Find the glue, chord, or tape that is sticking it to something.

You don't invest in personal growth. There is no investment. Interest in personal growth happened, and is now gone. Is there history os 'you' sitting there? Can it be pointed out except through thought? Does it exist anywhere tangible? Is it real or simply a thought?

Sorry! I somehow did not get notified of this last post.

No worries at all.

Look right now... is there an emotion appearing? Find the glue, chord, or tape that is sticking it to something.

Just went looking for the person that needs approval. Had a funny image of a cord attached to the feeling/issue, just blowing in the darkness of the “mind’s eye”, not attached to anyone.

You don't invest in personal growth. There is no investment. Interest in personal growth happened, and is now gone. Is there history os 'you' sitting there? Can it be pointed out except through thought? Does it exist anywhere tangible? Is it real or simply a thought?

It seems to all be thought, can’t directly prove anything except what’s happening now and even that's pretty strange. But those pesky thoughts have a biochemical and emotional effect. So once “no-self” is seen, there is still conditioning that needs to be worked through. Or is that even a remnant from years of “self” improvement?
Much appreciated!
T

Sure conditioning in the illusory self can be worked through, but is it necessary if this is truly seen as fact?

Take a look at the emotional effect. There is an assumption of effect going on, when really it's just the emotion. If you look closely, where is the emotion, and what is the emotion? Is it a sort of sensation?

Without relying on what society and conditioning has told you, close your eyes. Is the emotion *actually* inside something or is it just sort of hanging somewhere unlocatable. Really examine this closely. With eyes closed, what says emotional effect is effecting something?

Most importantly......What exactly is the effect of an emotion?

Sure conditioning in the illusory self can be worked through, but is it necessary if this is truly seen as fact?

Ultimately, no

Take a look at the emotional effect. There is an assumption of effect going on, when really it's just the emotion. If you look closely, where is the emotion, and what is the emotion? Is it a sort of sensation?

I did Scott Kiloby’s inquiry for a bit, same idea. Everything is a word, picture, sensation. The emotion just boils down to a sensation.

Without relying on what society and conditioning has told you, close your eyes. Is the emotion *actually* inside something or is it just sort of hanging somewhere unlocatable. Really examine this closely. With eyes closed, what says emotional effect is effecting something?

With eyes closed, emotion is felt as a sensation in a part of the body…if I stay with it, it’s just sensation floating in spaciousness and it seems to eventually dissipate.

Most importantly......What exactly is the effect of an emotion?

I think since it’s a shifty changey thing it would inherently have no effect. It only has an effect if emotion hooks me into a story of an “I”, i.e. a “not good enough, cranky, failed, etc..” “Trent”. This is much easier to break down when out of a triggering situation.
Warmly,
Trent

Check to see whether the existence of the self is real, and be more than 100% sure of your response. Once that happens, see whether the post above still carries weight.

Intellectually, you've got the concepts. But now comes the part where you must 'just look'. You might say that that is what you've been doing, but it may not be. You have likely been looking with the intellect some, and then moving in for real glimpses and 'seeing this'. But what's needed is to not believe a word I say. Not what anyone says. The 'shift' comes with conviction only. So the self, if it it still there, needs to be examined, brought out into the sunlight, and dealt with until there is no doubt.

Where Is the doubt now? We need to keep at this until it is absolutely true based upon experience...

Is there a self anywhere at all? (I keep asking, but it's a recurring thought structure with lots of unconscious hiding places).

Secondly, what's wrong with a trigger? Or a triggering situation? It doesn't have to *not* happen. The freedom is in finding the thing or entity it's happening to.

Where is that?

Thanks for staying on me Delma. I too want to be sure I’ve got this and not just in my coconut. Been reading your blog, quite helpful. Came across one fellow’s comment about expecting experience to be drastically different, and you told him “ though-generated non-entity is looking for a change of experience”. Intellectually I see that, but part of “me” is still holding out. I think I have this fantasy that finally seeing, or experiencing the Void will turn me into this superhuman, enlightened, utterly calm, above it all Trent. This “self” is expecting to look and having seen nothing, experience that mind blowing, without a doubt, shift. I think I’m looking…and not finding a self, and it’s kind of a “so what”.

I’m at work now, and will investigate further tonight.
Regarding triggers. I make those wrong, because I feel like “I” end up looking like a jerk, and not that super enlightened, calm and cool character.

Hi Delma, not sure if you saw my post above and if you have anything to add…

Is there a self anywhere at all? (I keep asking, but it's a recurring thought structure with lots of unconscious hiding places).

I still feel a sense of a self, and not sure what to make of it. There are teachers that talk about that sense, the I AM. Not sure what to make of that while immersing in the LU teaching.

This personality seems so real, quirky and something that I’m attached to. . It’s something I’ve worked hard at creating. The way I speak, move, how I relate to “others”. Not that I think I’ll be a sort of zombie once I “get” this but still…

Thanks Delma

Let me ask you this: Has there ever been a self? It that possible?

Do you imagine it will disappear?

Let me ask you this: Has there ever been a self? It that possible?

No there never was a self. Not possible to make a made up thing a real thing.

Do you imagine it will disappear?

Ok, haha, right. I've been imagining that this never been here self, will go "poof".

And here, with this last post, you've hit on why this is about seeing the truth of reality rather than being just an experience.

That there is no separate self is something which should be a readily observable truth, under any condition, including challenging ones. No matter how challenging, is the self ACTUALLY anywhere? Thoughts may come, but see whether the thoughts are part of the real world, or just imagination.

Take a day to hang out and observe the world with this lens. If you have pets, or take a walk in nature, just take a look at life and see how much of it is actually being done, and how much just happens on its own.

This is a critical exercise as it brings this experience from the mind to actually living reality as it is.

Let me know what happened during the day and what your observations are.

Dela

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Thoughts may come, but see whether the thoughts are part of the real world, or just imagination.

Thanks for that hint. Thoughts, like motes of dust, just spinning out continuously.

Take a day to hang out and observe the world with this lens. If you have pets, or take a walk in nature, just take a look at life and see how much of it is actually being done, and how much just happens on its own.

This is a critical exercise as it brings this experience from the mind to actually living reality as it is.

Let me know what happened during the day and what your observations are.

Went to a party last night, and remained remarkably calm in a room full of people. Have always had social anxiety to varying degrees. Just kind of enjoyed the show this time, watching bodies play out each one’s conditioning that’s been in place for decades. Bubbling up in words and actions and responses. This body speaks and engages when moved to do so, and experiences more contentment or “emptiness” when not moved.

Walked my little dog today to take a look as you recommended. Body moves, starts to run, legs and feet know what to do. Thoughts arise, I don’t like that house there, I prefer this one over here. Who’s making those thoughts happen? I wonder will I ever stop thinking, and the thought comes, “who would be there to stop thinking?” Thoughts, opinions floating about in a brain or a mind regardless. Dog stops, poops, this body cleans up the poop, happening after happening, looking out to the screen in front showing a neighborhood. Experiencing this slice of life, without any of it having anything to do with a “me”. Nothing earth shattering, just pretty normal.

I’ve also noticed a lack of interest in the spiritual world that used to take up so much time, obsessing, reading, worrying about. I tried looking back into my former teaching that I followed, and, Ugh! Just couldn’t do it. Words, words, words, and utterly boring.
Thanks Delma. Is there more? Not sure I’m done, but I might be.

Tell me about the knarly bits that are left. :)

We can also take a look at the questions we usually ask folks at the end. That's usually a good way to determine whether we need to cover anything more and whether this has moved from the mind to experience. It sounds as though it has!

But go ahead and drag out all objections. We'll tear 'em up. :)

Ok, knarly bits and objections…lemme see here…
When I started this process, I thought it might be helpful to go through a difficult experience to really see if this stuff holds water. Be careful what you ask for. My Mother is getting on in years and I received word this morning that she’s going through a health challenge (back home all the way cross country). Now…I did notice that I didn’t freak out inside, like I have in the past. Pretty darned calm this time, but still scary. All this stuff about losing loved ones, sickness, and death coming up. No self or not, this seems like frightening stuff.

And then some anxiety and fear of going to my boss and saying I gotta fly back to Virginia for God knows how long, during our busiest time of year. Any shred of disapproval I might get still hooks “me” into this Trent story. It all seems to be working out, I’m getting support, but the old garbage still comes up.

If this had happened a couple of weeks ago, I’d be reading A Course in Miracles out loud to myself and praying to the Holy Spirit for help in getting through this little patch. But now, I feel almost like an atheist. Not much belief in anything. Does “no-self” lead to nihilism? I mean if there’s no me, where’s the hope, the mystical experiences, the magic?
What’s making all these happenings happen, what’s dreaming the dream? When looking in the darkness of my innervision for a self, what the hell is it that looks??
Ok, back to you ; )

If this had happened a couple of weeks ago, I’d be reading A Course in Miracles out loud to myself and praying to the Holy Spirit for help in getting through this little patch. But now, I feel almost like an atheist. Not much belief in anything. Does “no-self” lead to nihilism? I mean if there’s no me, where’s the hope, the mystical experiences, the magic?
What’s making all these happenings happen, what’s dreaming the dream? When looking in the darkness of my innervision for a self, what the hell is it that looks??
Ok, back to you ; )

Good stuff!

No self can lead to nihilism if it's taken on as a belief. But you've asked a good question. If there's no self, then what's going on? To answer this we need to pay attention to direct experience to find the answer. It's right there, and it's entirely miraculous.

If life is living itself, isn't it a miracle that anything at all goes on? All of it. Just look at it. The 'bad' bits, the 'good' bits.... the creativity. As an artist, maybe you can see the artistry that's happening, and in seeming 3D?

This part's a challenge, but can you say that anything is looking at all? Why do I say this? Take a look. Check for yourself. What is true in direct experience?

What goes on within thought is another matter. Is there an assumption (thought/belief) going on that there *has* to be some sort of entity looking? What if LOOKING itself was looking? Is that what's most true? What if HEARING itself was hearing? When we investigate carefully, there's nothing there looking. And If an entity can't be found, some make something up.... they create a Bigger me, a Spiritual me, or an Awareness me who claims to be 'all' and 'everything'. But where is this me? Where? How does it exist? Doesn't experience say that the only conclusion is that the verbing, the action, is the process. Looking can't be shut off because IT itself is doing the looking.

Looking is looking. And that's amazing.
Hearing is hearing. And that's amazing.

Nothing ever stops. It's just nonstop appearances and flow, with no one doing it. So if you think about praying, rather than to an entity (because humans tend to think in terms of 'me' and therefore made up an all-powerful-up-in-heaven-me who watches everything)... anyway, rather than to an entity, it would be life praying to every single bit of life. Life adoring every single bit of life. Life enjoying every single aspect of life.

Every. single. so-called object or thing is actually a verb, an ongoing process. Every. single. thing is alive and changing. No. thing is dead or static. Even the things we think are inert, are not.

Can you check to see whether everything I've said is true?

How's that for wonder and awe?

Pray to everything. It's ordinary and extraordinary all at once. Samsara is Nirvana.

If life is living itself, isn't it a miracle that anything at all goes on? All of it. Just look at it. The 'bad' bits, the 'good' bits.... the creativity. As an artist, maybe you can see the artistry that's happening, and in seeming 3D?

Yes absolutely, when I drop the habit of overlaying a spiritual teaching and just “look” it’s all pretty mysterious and wild.

This part's a challenge, but can you say that anything is looking at all? Why do I say this? Take a look. Check for yourself. What is true in direct experience?

I still get hung up a bit on “it’s my brain” looking. If brain is dead, no nothing, no looking. Or it’s “consciousness” looking. When I’m unconscious is there no looking, experiencing? This “self” wouldn’t be looking but a kind of amorphous consciousness that was formerly me “look”? Sorry to beat a dead horse, but still feels sticky there.

Can you check to see whether everything I've said is true?

Checking checking and checking as best I can. If I think about the brain and consciousness stuff that’s where I get caught up. I just imagine explaining this to say, a friend, who has never been exposed to these concepts. The first thing they’d say is, “it’s your brain dummy.” And I have a hard time getting past that without retracing our conversations. I want to make sure this is experienced and not verbal vomit of pointers.

How's that for wonder and awe?

Thanks Delma, it’s beautiful and powerful what you’ve written, and “I” want to experience it fully.
Trent