guidance, please!

[Bill]

Bill wrote:
How about not fabricating anything for a moment, and simply looking at what’s present right now?
Is there a self that can be found in direct experience?
What's here?


There are sensations of light, heat, touch, and smell right now in direct experience.
Haven’t found a self.
Not sure what to try next?

Yes, just what's going on here and now.
Isn't thats all that's ever really going on?

If you'd like you could give me a rant on where you are.
List anything and everything you need to get out or something you feel you're unclear on,
stuck on, in resistance to....

Also, try these two questions.

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
If yes, has this been seen or is it a belief?

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

No rush on these.... take your time.

[ealow1]

Sure, here’s where I’m at, in no particular organization.

I felt very frustrated this morning and yesterday that I wasn’t “getting it,” or experiencing any kind of shift. Then I clicked around Ilona’s blog and followed the steps here: http://markedeternal.blogspot.com/p/start-here.html
I just finished step 4.

What she said about expectations hit home - I have a whole lot of expectations about awakening. I wrote them all down and saw just how many I had. They had really been building up over the past month. I saw that there was clinging to expectations, but nothing was doing the clinging when I looked. This particular bit is pretty funny.

What helps with expectations is remembering how every time I see something important, it is effortless, it just happens. Putting more efforting into it doesn’t work.

I did the exercise (here http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labels.html) where I had to narrate experience using I (I am walking, I am looking) and then only use verbs (walking, looking). It was very, very nice. There was a subtle but important difference between the I-narrated experience and the regular experience. The regular experience was more fun even though all I did was walk around my apartment. It’s not that everything was interesting - more like nothing was not interesting. So it didn’t make everything magical, but there was nothing to ruin how naturally wonderful everything is. There’s no boredom or judging without “I.” After that I went and did something with my friend that I normally don’t enjoy at all, but it was fine just doing it because I wasn’t thinking “I don’t like this” as much. I did, and sometimes it stuck, but sometimes it didn’t.

I hesitate answering your two questions because I don’t think I am fully “through.” Of course, those are just thoughts, and I have seen that they are not always to be trusted. But I am under the impression (expectation) that when you see, you know for sure, is this correct? There is some impatience here, so expectations are sticking a little still (but less).

For the two questions:

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
If yes, has this been seen or is it a belief?

Haven’t seen any separate entities besides thoughts. At this point, “I is only a thought” makes a lot of sense, but “there is no experiencer/self” doesn’t. I think I still have a belief that there is an experiencer or a center. I can convince “myself” that there is no experiencer temporarily, but then thoughts to the contrary come back. Just need some more looking. When I lose an object in everyday life, I have to look for it obsessively before I decide it’s not there, so maybe that carries over :) When I look and the answer is “nothing” I don’t accept it.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

I think I am a little green for this but will try.

The body and mind are connected (or the same thing), so when thoughts happen in the mind, they turn into sensations in the body. The separate self illusion is just a bunch of thoughts about there being a separate self (anything with “I” in it). These thoughts result in sensations that are real. The body is very good at avoiding sensations that are uncomfortable, which it can do (and does do) without a control center (Experienced this almost getting run over by a car the other day - the body just protected itself). So in order to protect itself, it creates thoughts like fear, and since the thoughts seemed linked with real things like sensations, there is a confusion with real and not real. Am I way off? this is a work in progress.

[Bill]

Erica - Im very glad to see you're looking and hunting and reading other things.
This is very good. I like to see people read anything and everything on our site and
do what it takes to find the key for them.

Good you looked at your expectations again.
Please list them here for me now.
What are they?
What do you want to happen? What do you think will happen?
Get them all down here in the open so I know what they are also...

What helps with expectations is remembering how every time I see something important, it is effortless, it just happens. Putting more efforting into it doesn’t work.

Yes, it all does just come.. like the Koan.

I hesitate answering your two questions because I don’t think I am fully “through.” Of course, those are just thoughts, and I have seen that they are not always to be trusted. But I am under the impression (expectation) that when you see, you know for sure, is this correct? There is some impatience here, so expectations are sticking a little still (but less).

My reason for asking was to flush out where you are.
Yes, most all have a knowing that they have SEEN...not always but almost always..

The important thing is to LOOK. There is no way of getting this without LOOKING.
So for you, find out everything you can about LOOKING....

I want to copy a piece in on Looking for you.
Written by Delma, one of our guides.
Its very good and might open up something.. Its a little long but very good.
Don't take any of it personally.

Please write what comes up for you.
and the expectations above...

********************************************************************************
Dear Seeker,
It's Never Easy to Write This....

I'm not sure how many ways I can tell you this, and so most times I just have to repeat myself. You don't listen. Thoughts crowd out the very ability to listen to direction. And! You often become frustrated with this direction and walk away from our inquiry thinking that the pointer can't be of much use. You assume that the person giving it is just wrong about what it is you need to hear in order to see this. But the truth is,
You're wrong.

There's a reason why this particular pointer is the most effective I've come across. It's direct. Blunt. It leaves no room for discussion, and my role is to end the discussion entirely.

I don't want a dialogue with you!

Don't be offended by that.

While a dialogue may help you to UNDERSTAND what's being said, that understanding isn't what's going to get this done. I'll tell you what will and I'll give it my best shot, knowing that it's worked for hundreds of people already, maybe thousands. Here it is, so listen up.

Just Look.

That's it. It's the best and most thorough pointer you're going to find if you could just stop long enough to do what's directed.

Now, you have to ask yourself this... how is it that this pointer can be it. The one. Everything. The KEY? Go ahead and ask that question. Test it out. Tear it up. How is that IT?

And when you hit a brick wall, just maybe you'll do what's being asked which is to notice that a speck of dust is more real than the self. A droplet of dew is more real than the self has ever been or can ever be.

How is that true? In what way is that true?

When the answer comes, just stop and take that in. Then scan that brain for all of the teachings which say that this is simple. Childlike. Humble. Think of all the accounts of those who've 'gotten it' and said that they couldn't believe how simple it is. And the look of wonder? It's not because they're suddenly seeing pixie dust or rainbows. It's because they stopped to follow the directive, and then they saw the truth of REALITY AS IT IS.

Now....

Just.

Look.

Look at a picture on your wall.

What is seen?

What is absent?

Look at anything.

Anywhere.

Any time.

What is seen?

What is not?

[ealow1]

Good you looked at your expectations again.
Please list them here for me now.
What are they?
What do you want to happen? What do you think will happen?
Get them all down here in the open so I know what they are also…

some things I would like to happen at some point:
to feel freer/lighter
life to be easier with less difficult/effortful thoughts
to be a better friend/daughter, connect with people better
to be a better artist
to have less anger
to be able to overcome self-judgmental thoughts
less panic - be able to relax + let go
less shame - freer expression
to not concentrate on time so much
be able to help other people without feeling resentful
to never want to die again
too feel awe, gratefulness
to be able to handle trauma if/when it happen

According to what i read on Ilona’s blog, this will not happen in a flash, but gradually as old beliefs are let go.

Also, I expect a noticeable shift in perception where I know I’ve seen it, but as you said, this might not happen. I think this is hindering me right now.

Will keep reading!!

[Bill]

Hi Erica

Thanks for getting these all out

The expectations listed might all be worth things to achieve.
But no... this inquiry will not make them happen.
Nothing will change. Only your perception of things...
Whatever issues and problems you have or had will still be there.
This is not a self help program in this way.
Please drop all these expectations as well as you can.
When we finish, you can pick them up again if you want.
They are only in the way right now.

About your expectations, I wrote this in a previous post....
its worth repeating:

Liberation is not a thought, a feeling or a state.
Its really so ordinary that we have almost totally missed it.
I can't convince you of it, in fact the only way I can help is to point you in the right direction to look so you can see it for yourself. You have to do the seeing.
It is through direct experience that it is seen. I want you to look with fresh eyes at the truth of common everyday experience. Like a child sees... without any bias. Pure perception you could call it.
Its not hidden. Its been here all along. Its just a shift in perspective.
No one can give you anything to enlighten you.
Instead of a 'you' being fuller, its more of an emptying of a 'you' ...
Do not expect fireworks. they may or may not happen. Each person is different.
And all the emotions we have had in the past are still here.. it just seems there is much less stickiness to them.



About the Looking article....
Comments?
What does LOOKING mean and how is it done in this context?

If you LOOK in this way, can you find an I?
Try it....try just looking simply..
What is there?

[ealow1]

About the Looking article....
Comments?
What does LOOKING mean and how is it done in this context?

It’s nice to be reminded that the concept is simple, the problem is just getting through all the thoughts that are saying it’s difficult.

Even defining looking is proving to be a bit frustrating, even though it is probably simple... I think looking means just focusing on experience and trying to find a center.

If you LOOK in this way, can you find an I?
Try it....try just looking simply..
What is there?

Just sensations and thoughts/memories, one of which was “There is something observing everything somewhere” but nothing was behind it, it just appeared. There is no experiencer that I can find, just thoughts insisting that there must be an experiencer. Currently this is hard to understand.

I downloaded the LU app today, think I will read that too.

[Bill]

It’s nice to be reminded that the concept is simple, the problem is just getting through all the thoughts that are saying it’s difficult.

What are thoughts saying about this?

Even defining looking is proving to be a bit frustrating, even though it is probably simple... I think looking means just focusing on experience and trying to find a center.

I don't understand what you're saying here...

Just sensations and thoughts/memories, one of which was “There is something observing everything somewhere” but nothing was behind it, it just appeared. There is no experiencer that I can find, just thoughts insisting that there must be an experiencer. Currently this is hard to understand.

Our thoughts tell us there must be an experiencer if there is experience.
Can one really be found if a good look is taken?

I downloaded the LU app today, think I will read that too.

Here is another look at these on a web page.

http://www.1ness.info/eq.htm

Erica, about some of your fears....

Allow any of of them to come without resistance if you can.
Relax and when it starts to come,
let it come up to be looked at.
Sit with it and ask it why its here.
See that it is only there to protect 'you'.
Is there a you that needs protecting, really?
Look past the fear and see if there's anything real there...

Let me know what you find.

[ealow1]

What are thoughts saying about this?

They're saying, "Why can't I accept this? Why can't I figure this out? This is way too complicated" And "there is definitely an experiencer."

I don't understand what you're saying here…

Sorry, that was garbled. You asked me what looking means and how it is done. I am looking for a center in every thought and experience. Is that correct?

Our thoughts tell us there must be an experiencer if there is experience.
Can one really be found if a good look is taken?

No. But a thought appeared that said, "You don't know if it isn't there. You have to be an expert in neuroscience to know. There are a lot of things you don't know and this is one of them. It's unscientific to give up and draw an early conclusion." Of course there is nothing behind that thought. It came out of nowhere, and it’s protecting nothing.

[ealow1]

Also, tonight: I am investigating the “separate” part of the “no separate self.”

I think this means that there is no separation between the experience and the imaginary experiencer. is this correct? So it is not experience -> experiencer, just experience. I have a plant that grows toward sunlight, so it probably has some sense for sunlight, or ability to experience sunlight. It clearly does not have a center. You kick a rock, it goes flying. I touch a hot pan, my body reacts. There are laws of nature and that’s it, no control centers. So I think it’s more accurate to say there is cause and effect, not experience and experiencer?

[Bill]

All these attempts to 'figure this out' will not work.
See that what you are looking for, searching for is here, right now.
Its always been here. We just haven't noticed it.
We're always looking for something MORE.
LOOK. truly LOOK.
This moment, right now, is the one you've wanted your whole life.
There's nothing, absolutely nothing that needs to be changed
either on your insides, or in your outer circumstances.

The brain says no, No, NO! It can't be this simple.
Its got to be different than this, more flashy,
greater insight, more bliss, oneness.... and on and on and on.
So we overlook THIS precious moment in hopes of a better one.
Of course off in the future. That one that never comes.
This is the delusion. That this moment is not the one.
That what is here right now... THIS.... is not IT!
See this delusion. It has to be seen.

When you see it, truly SEE it, you can relax and know that this moment is the one.
It's just ordinary everyday life as it is. We don't have to hope for something better.
The seeking can stop. We can put all the books away. No more teachers are needed either.
There's nothing to learn really and we can't lose this either because whatever occurs on the
inside or outside, it is always still THIS.
We just have to stop and LOOK again to realize.


Erica - which is more 'real'..... a grain of sand.... or a 'self'??
Why?

[ealow1]

I see that thinking harder creates more difficulty.

Erica - which is more 'real'..... a grain of sand.... or a 'self'??
Why?

The grain of sand is more real because it can be experienced - seen, touched, etc. A thought can reference it. Thoughts reference self too, but it can’t be experienced, it’s just imagined.

[ealow1]

Tried to smell, taste, see, touch, hear a self, and couldn’t, could only sense other real things.

Negative emotions are really useful - I can see there is a thought and a sensation. This body does stuff, but since it isn’t owned by anything, no one cares. Life doesn’t stop, there’s nothing to be fixed - there are just sensations and thoughts that go away. No need to initiate force to make it go away (there is no way to make it go away, and no one to make it go away).

Whenever there is a need for something (food, whatever) the body and mind just do whatever they have to do to get it. No separate person in the control booth.

No fireworks, which is good, they would interrupt things.

[Bill]

Tried to smell, taste, see, touch, hear a self, and couldn’t, could only sense other real things.

What does that say about the validity of a self?

Negative emotions are really useful - I can see there is a thought and a sensation. This body does stuff, but since it isn’t owned by anything, no one cares. Life doesn’t stop, there’s nothing to be fixed - there are just sensations and thoughts that go away. No need to initiate force to make it go away (there is no way to make it go away, and no one to make it go away).
Whenever there is a need for something (food, whatever) the body and mind just do whatever they have to do to get it. No separate person in the control booth.

It’s an illusion that there is a “you” that is living your life. There’s just life and the movement of life.
Every thing will continue to come up... every emotion is included.
Life flows... with or without 'us' seemingly at the control.
We think we are at times, but are we?

Erica, your own 'story' has absolutely no relevance to you. Without the narrative of it in thought (not reality),
it would not exist, nor be maintained. Look at this dubious history of how a self is constructed.
We tell our stories and memories to other people as if they were real. We invest and believe in them wholeheartedly.

Can you see how the story of Erica was constructed?
What would be without this story?

[ealow1]

What does that say about the validity of a self?

Can’t prove the self is there.

Can you see how the story of Erica was constructed?

Starting with whenever I learned to think “I,” a bunch of thoughts/memories strung together created a story. Just like any story, it’s just sentences and/or images, not real.

What would be without this story?

Just moving around.

[Bill]

Erica - is there a 'you' that exists?
Don't answer this right away. Take today and Look.

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