Locustafiera requesting guide

[Locustafiera]

And there is definitely a sense if fire over there, me here.
There is something difficult to describe, as if almost sensed, almost seen, when looking, especially outside. A sense that the scene has some of the properties of a projection, or that what's seen is a dynamic map, not raw reality. Accompanied by a sense of wonder. Really hard to describe. Probably nothing.

The eardrum feeling was just a pulsing air pressure felt in time with the bass beat.

[Hannah B-T]

Didn't get a chance to look much today

Remember, direct sensory experience is never 'off'. Any and every moment could be a moment of clarity.

just answering the easy questions

What makes a question 'easy' or 'hard' to look into?

Yes, I have noticed before too that whenever thinking about a body part, a rough mental image forms, as if the word cannot be processed without the image.

Great-
So when I say 'Andrew'
what image appears?
Is that image real?
Can you find 'Andrew' in that image? (remember the looking in the mirror thing, do that again if it helps).

I would like also like you to do this experiment by a guy called Douglas Harding. Tell me how it goes.

http://www.headless.org/experiments/pointing.htm

And there is definitely a sense if fire over there, me here

What is this sense of 'me here' made of?

There is something difficult to describe, as if almost sensed, almost seen, when looking, especially outside. A sense that the scene has some of the properties of a projection, or that what's seen is a dynamic map, not raw reality

Yes, you might have to try again on that one. Really don't get this.

The eardrum feeling was just a pulsing air pressure felt in time with the bass beat.

Could you actually percieve 'air' or 'a 'bass beat'?

Ok, just to clarify... language is the very tool that duality and therefore the illusion of a self is built out of.
But they are what is used here.
When i say things like above it is an invitation to question the assumed validity of that description, to strip back the words until it's clearer -what is concepts invented by thought about the experience, and what was actually experienced. Does that make sense?

[Hannah B-T]

http://www.headless.org/experiments/the-single-eye.htm

This one's really relevant to what you were saying about the eyes/seeing as well...

[Locustafiera]

Hello again.

Easy questions are the ones for which I have an immediate answer because they have been noticed before - e.g. the visual imaging of body parts. All the others are varying degrees of hard. Also what makes them hard is wanting to get the answers right.

The image that appears when you say 'Andrew' - there isn't one. If I think of Andrew I see an image of the word.

This sense of 'me here' is made of -
the kind of material that is happy not to be too close to fire - flesh, body. Maybe fire isn't a great choice, so I will try sky or water when I'm near some.

Yes, the seeing thing - was tired and forgot the feeling I really meant to describe. A better description is this; I feel like the spaciousness of the outside is also somehow on the inside. Or, I am immersed in the seeing, transparent. I am a seeing machine, when I see, the job is done, no more to do. The feeling is similar with music. There is music, inside and outside the same, no boundary at me. Love it. I am a hearing device. I hear, for no purpose. I am here to see. Here to hear.

I tried the face pointing exercise. Need some more time with this. I really expected to be writing ' and I saw...a finger', but there was more. It was a silence, a pause.

With the bass/eardrum thing what I felt was pressure and a pulsing tickle on the ear.

Yes I see the difference between concepts in language invented by thought about the experience and the actual experience itself. I guess a baby, having no language, has no 'comprehension' as we think of it, just the raw experience. Was it Lacan who said that the sense of self first appears when a child learns the meaning of the word 'I'.

I'm not at all impressed by the single eye experiment. Look up - you can see the edge there, it's your eyebrow. Now it should be obvious why you can't see the other edges. They cannot be brought into the 'field' of vision. The image is only a single one if, as usual, the eyes move in a normal synchronised pattern. Cross your eyes - there are now two mixed up images.
:-)

[Locustafiera]

Just realised I probably broke rules just then. Will repost from direct experience only tomorrow.

[Locustafiera]

Easy questions are the ones for which I have an immediate answer because they have been noticed before - e.g. the visual imaging of body parts. All the others are varying degrees of hard. Also what makes them hard is wanting to get the answers right.

The image that appears when you say 'Andrew' - there isn't one. If I think of Andrew I see an image of the word.

This sense of 'me here' is made of -
the kind of material that is happy not to be too close to fire - flesh, body, mind (? Mind? Yes). There's a Maybe fire isn't a great choice, so I will try sky or water next.

Yes, the seeing thing - was tired and forgot the feeling I really meant to describe. There was the sense I described of projection/map but a suspicion it was a conceptual thought. A better description is this; I feel like the spaciousness of the outside is also somehow on the inside, continuously, through me. Or, I am immersed in the seeing, transparent. The feeling is similar with music. There is music, inside and outside the same and seamlessly, no boundary at me.

I tried the face pointing exercise. Need some more time with this but there was a ringing silence, a pause.

With the bass/eardrum thing what I felt was pressure and a pulsing tickle on the ear.

Yes, the difference between raw experience and interpreted experience makes sense. During my peak experience of 'divine clockwork' it seemed that this layer of interpretation momentarily suspended itself.

In the single eye experiment. The single and boundary less nature of vision - is noticed.

A new fear has come up. A fear that a belief in self is useful, even necessary, for survival. Survival of what? one might ask. This body and its progeny.

[Locustafiera]

Hang on, there are no thoughts, there's only thinking. No sights, only seeing etc. Grrrr.

[Locustafiera]

Meaning/interpretation, modelling due to language is the 'map' I was on about, the sense of projection.
Mirror, mirror, reflect.

[Hannah B-T]

Apologies, unexpectedly busy with work and family last 24 hours.
Will reply tonight.
Seems things are ticking along nicely anyway:

A new fear has come up. A fear that a belief in self is useful, even necessary, for survival. Survival of what? one might ask. This body and its progeny.

Really great to clock this. Look straight at the fear. What is it made of? Are there certain physical sensations that seem to indicate 'SURVIVE!', describe them, look at them. Then ask:

'What's really here that needs protecting?'
'If there never was a self, how has the body managed to survive so far?'

Like they say on strictly come dancing...
'keeeep Looking!'

:)

[Locustafiera]

No problem. It can wait until tomorrow. Plenty of looking to get on with :-)

[Hannah B-T]

Just to let you know, apologies for things getting a bit erratic, but i'm travelling to a family funeral from tomorrow onwards so next post won't be till saturday.

Also what makes them hard is wanting to get the answers right.

I'll say it again, 'right' and 'wrong' are value judgements completely irrelevant to this process. There is an encouragement towards a certain...'discernment' shall we call it- between the content of thought and direct sensory experience, as a tool to investigate what is being referred to by the words I/me/self. But that seeing will then either happen or not.

What is 'trying to get it right?'

This sense of 'me here' is made of -
the kind of material that is happy not to be too close to fire - flesh, body

What is 'body' in direct experience?

I am immersed in the seeing, transparent. I am a seeing machine, when I see, the job is done,

Yes, seeing happens!
The core assumption of the thoughts is that there is a 'i' that sees, that hears etc...just like an 'i' that is writing these words...doing this inquiry...
Is there?
Has that been discovered yet?

Yes I see the difference between concepts in language invented by thought about the experience and the actual experience itself. I guess a baby, having no language, has no 'comprehension' as we think of it, just the raw experience. Was it Lacan who said that the sense of self first appears when a child learns the meaning of the word 'I'.

Do you have access to being with a baby? (sounds weird!)
pets/animals can be great 'teachers' with this as well.
Just be with them, and maybe drop in this one...

'How are we 'different'? 'separate'? Really.'

without expecting concepts to give the 'right' answer to that.
Just look and see what happens...

[Hannah B-T]

However it might help to post something here every day still from your end, keep the momentum ticking over. there's a few direct questions over the last few posts still awaiting a direct response....like

'What's really here that needs protecting?'
'If there never was a self, how has the body managed to survive so far?'

Are there certain physical sensations that seem to indicate 'SURVIVE!', describe them, look at them

and report them if you can.

and the one's in the last post

Thanks.

[Locustafiera]

I feel sad to hear of your loss Hannah. I trust you are left with fond memories.

I will continue to post daily but will not expect replies.

What is the fear made of?
I don't know how to tell what it's made of. It is thought about what it could be like in the future to be without a belief in self. Thought that it might mean something is missing. Thought that first there needs to be an understanding of why the belief is there in the first place before it can be let go as not useful. Perhaps the fear is made of thought then.

Are there certain physical sensations that seem to say 'survive'.
No such sensations found.

What's really here that needs protecting?
The fear is that the belief in self (not a self itself) makes it more likely the 'me' creature will survive. That the behaviour of the 'me' creature will be more effective if it has a belief in a self.

But looking also discovers a belief that
the body will do what it needs to do to keep alive, by itself. And it will mourn the loss of its relatives naturally. But it is just one instance of the same life living among many millions. There's nothing really to protect. Just a carbon based life form.

And there is also a suspicion that the self could actually be a danger to the body. It often feels like a danger. And otherwise why would there be thinking and questioning about the self being in this way, but I guess that's conceptual thinking.

What is 'trying to get it right'? Yearning for the truth in part, wanting to demonstrate that the self is smart too.

What is 'body' in direct experience? Sensation. Seeing of shape, size. Feeling of weight, density and such things.

Is there a 'I' that sees, hears etc?
No. No such thing can be found. The seeing, hearing, feeling is just happening and there it ends. A self would need its own eyes, ears, and other sensors with which to enjoy the show. Turtles again.

I don't have access to a baby or pets. But I see less difference now. Not long ago I was listening to a friend explaining a situation he was struggling with and saw him as an animal in pain, helpless, trapped inside the confines of his perceived reality. There was a real and great compassion for him that arose.
Are we separate? This is harder. I begin to see though. Recently and more than once when travelling on the tube I have looked and seen in the faces of strangers the knowledge of all the same things, a common humanity, as though we are all tips of the same iceberg but all entranced by different dreams of our own tiny slice of reality.

[Locustafiera]

Hi.
Just posting to report that 'I' feels more like batman nowadays. It's quite funny. Now seeing these fictional characters everywhere. It explains so much - the fundamental absurdity of human life. All this ridiculous focus on Me and My Stuff - My responsibilities, My faults, My development. Nothing can be helped! This has always been known deep down!

[Locustafiera]

Just checking in. Hope things are OK today.

Had a busy day and its late so don't have much to write.

Things that would normally have been very bothersome have been tolerated relatively easily recently. Have been enjoying normal everday stuff more than usual. And other people's company. The previously almost constant urge to be 'doing something more worthwhile' has gone.
Sometimes there is a high, similar to a high that might be experienced under the early influence of a recreational drug. A nice buzz.
Awareness seems less concentrated here, and more dissipated outward. When looking for the self there is a kind of diffuse 'null' response.