The Gate

Hi,

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I will say the pain. All the pains or sufferings for the past 20 years or so made me want to go over. Strange it may sound, I remember the day that the shift happens is when I find my life not worth living anymore. Then I start to think who will miss me when I am dead. Then I looked inside and saw that it is this self that wants to die. That is the point I started looking.

I just re-look at this answer. I trying to recollect when the actual shift happens. Just remember at that time I just purchased an iPad, and download the "Power of Now" audio book, I remember listening to the audio books for days without registering anything in the mind. Then one day while I was listening, I can't even remember which chapter or which paragraph that I was listening to, suddenly the shift happens. Suddenly I get what the audio book is saying, the book actually is speaking out from "Stillness", or from the other side and try to talk to the "self" at this side, if you understand what I means.

Again thanks for the help, after talking to you, a lot of things start to come back, all these I seem to forget or not remember them.

For the past two years I am not actually looking inside, I read a lot of books and this books work inside of me without me aware of all these. Now I start to look inside, I start to realize what is this self seeking process do.

Thanks for he guidance,
Liang[/quote]

Hi Liang - I see clearly the point you began looking.

Is there any difference from when you began this inquiry with Detox, from now at this point in the inquiry?

What during this inquiry pushed you over?
Have you been pushed over?
Be good to know if we need to keep looking.

Thank you with kindness

Hi,

Is there any difference from when you began this inquiry with Detox, from now at this point in the inquiry?

Yes, when I started this inquiry with you, you point to the direction where I should do this "direct seeing". Before this I do not know the method or where to look.

What during this inquiry pushed you over?
Have you been pushed over?
Be good to know if we need to keep looking.

There is a shift of perception two years ago while I read the "Power of Now". But this shift is not permanent, I find myself moving back and forth. That is why I came to this forum.

I don't think I have been pushed over yet. The journey just began. I have a glimpse of the awareness, but definitely not awaken yet.

I find myself has this thought that there should be a thinker although none of it can be found. The thought of this self totally not exist is something I cannot imagine. Like what you say I have to see it for myself, I am trying hard to do this now.

Thanks for the guidance,
Liang

Liang if you were able to describe what it would be to be pushed over what would that look like?

What do you expect to happen when you are pushed over?

Hi,

Liang if you were able to describe what it would be to be pushed over what would that look like?

What do you expect to happen when you are pushed over?

I do not have the faintest idea what it will look like, so far the mental image that form in my head is only it will be something very different that cannot be described by human experiences. I do not believe it will be something that is described in some text where one can see their past life before they are reincarnated to this life. Having say that I believe this self will disappear, and it will be replaced with another self. What this self will look like I have no idea for the moment.

The expectation is once it happens, I will feel a sense of calmness inside. Nothing external, no matter what is going on outside will not affect me. However what is this me I cannot see yet.

Thanks for the guidance,
Liang

Liang I have re read the beginning of our dialogue to see where we have become stuck in this looking. And I apologise because I read very clearly that you were looking for enlightenment. See below.

The hope is I can grasp what life means, and why we are born into this world.
To be frank with you I am not sure what is the end state or what I hope to gain from this journey.
Now I just want to see what is that "enlightenment" or the "seeing" like when I reach that state. I will say this is my goal for now.

LU does not suggest that it can bring people to enlightenemt. LU can encourage you to look at your direct experience so that you can see there is no self, and there never has been a self.

However this is the first stage on the path of the mental bonds of suffer (fetters) - To gain enlightenment one must braeak these bonds that shackle us to suffering. The first fetter is belief in a self, doubt is second, attachment to rites and rituals thired, fourth craving, fifth ill will, sixth lust for material things, seventh lust for immaterial things, eight - conceit, ninth restlessness, tenth ignorance.

The Pali canon traditionally describes cutting through the fetters in four stages:
one cuts the first three fetters (Pali: tīṇi saŋyojanāni) to be a "stream enterer" (sotapanna);
one cuts the first three fetters and significantly weakens the next two fetters to be a "once returner" (sakadagami);
one cuts the first five fetters (orambhāgiyāni samyojanāni) to be a "non-returner" (anagami);
one cuts all ten fetters to be an arahant.[35]

So when you have cut all these ten fetters you will become enlightened. Here at LU we help to point you in the right direction, and guide you to see and experience there is no self. Beyond that - there is after care that I can point you too.

What I will say is this - Enlightenment is here in this very moment if you can free yourself from the above bonds - and suffering is here in this moment now.

And I see you have moved into doubt - the second fetter - if you read back on some of your post - you are quite clear there is no self, never has been - but today you write?

Having say that I believe this self will disappear, and it will be replaced with another self. What this self will look like I have no idea for the moment.

Yes Yes - you are not enligthened - well who am I to say. But until we are enlightened the self may very well reappear but once we have seen through the illusion, we will see it for it what it really is - a delusion.

Did you grow up with Father Christmas. here in the west it is a big tradition. One day a child discovers that Father christmas does not exist at all. It is a story that there parents made up. Once the child has seen that, they know Father christmas does not exist. But every year Father Christmas appears and gives presents. Some children want to keep on believing the illusion. While other kids, see it for it really is. Just an illusion. And they choose not to go along with it anymore. And so there parents stop dressing up and creating a story.

So yes the self will reappear - but if you have seen that it is an illusion it will no longer have the same allure, or pull over you. Things become looser.

If the self dissapears who replaces it?

Now that I have explained all this - where does this leave you?

How different do you feel now, to when you first began this dialogue?

Do you doubt that there is no self? Or can you see clearly there is and never has been a self?

What are you waiting for? The big bang?

Hi,

If the self dissapears who replaces it?

Now that I have explained all this - where does this leave you?

How different do you feel now, to when you first began this dialogue?

Do you doubt that there is no self? Or can you see clearly there is and never has been a self?

What are you waiting for? The big bang?

You are right. I still have this image that when this self disappear then another bigger self will appear, although I can see inside there is no self.

Since the beginning of this dialogue, one thing for sure is when I looked inside, things are much clearer. The pointers given by you did help. Previously I am not sure what or where to look.

I am not sure what I am waiting for, although I definitely will continue on this journey.

There is still a long way to go for me. You are right also about me waiting, I am waiting for this moment where you suddenly gain a deep insight of something.

This self thing and this waiting thing are indeed a hindrance. I will reflect more on that.

Thanks for the guidance,
Liang

Liang who is

waiting for this moment where you suddenly gain a deep insight of something.

Is there an I that can wait for this moment?

What is this self thing?

I still have this image that when this self disappear then another bigger self will appear, although I can see inside there is no self.

STOP THINKING YOUR WAY THROUGH THIS - this is the hindrance.

Who created the self in the first place? and who will create the bigger self?

Tell me in your direct experience what it feels like when you see inside there in no self?

what does it feel like?

Beware - as this could become an intellectual game - and sadly the intellect can not grasp insight - it has to be on a visceral emotional gut level.

You have clearly seen there is no self - what are you waiting for now? what do you want to happen now?

Hi,

Is there an I that can wait for this moment?
What is this self thing?

By direct seeing there is no I and there is only this moment, Now.
This self thing only came up when I expect something to happen, when there is no expectation, this self will vanish.

Who created the self in the first place? and who will create the bigger self?

Self is create by thoughts. The bigger self is also thoughts creation.

Tell me in your direct experience what it feels like when you see inside there in no self?
what does it feel like?

When I look and see no self, there is just nothing there, a void.
When all things including thoughts stopped, I felt nothing, just very still and quiet.

You have clearly seen there is no self - what are you waiting for now? what do you want to happen now?

Now I slowly realise there is nothing to wait for. Just this moment is all there is. Throughout the years I have been waiting for something magical or miraculous to happen, all these expectation is an illusion also.

Now I felt much better although I am down with flu for the past few days.

I understand what it means when you need to empty the cup before it can be fill up again. I have been carrying a lot of unnecessary baggage on this journey.

Thanks for the guidance,
Liang

This is great Laing - exactly there is nothing to wait for.

How does that feel?

Oh - writing to ask two more things - Just checking with other guides to see if there are any more questions that need to be asked?

do you have a Facebook name - so I can invite you to after care - when appropriate. There are some great FB pages where if you want to keep on searching -

a

Hi Detox,

This is my facebook account liangbu.ong.

ong is my family name.

Thanks for all the help,
Liang

Hi Liang - I'm wanting to continue our dialogue - as Intellectually with out a doubt I see that you know there is not a self. So I am wanting to spend a few days seeing if you can stop listening to thought and connecting to direct exoerience. First can you answer the question.

How does it feel when you experience there is no self?

Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
Anything to add here

Hi,

Fine with me, let us continue.

You are right, for the past two years I am reading and watching all these direct seeing stuff, so intellectually I understand all these that does not mean I actually see it. Good to verify this.

How does it feel when you experience there is no self?

To be frank, I felt nothing. The first time I was amazed that I can actually see through this. But as time goes on it just felt quite normal now.

Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

Life is like an auto-pilot mode, everything happen on its own. It is more like now I am responding, events happen by itself, then I just react to them.

One example is in my job I have a lot of paper work, being a technical person, who don't like to do paper work, I tend to do them last minute, and quite often miss the deadline. Then you feel really bad about missing the deadline. Now I don't know how to put it, I still feel bad, but the feeling will not register in my heart, if you know what I means. It is like you no longer feel this heaviness in your heart. Now you just pick up from where the things left off, and start all over again.

I am a person who used to worry a lot, when project deadline get closer, I can feel so tense that I actually not able to do any work. Quite often I have to ask from my boss for an extension. Now I don't really worry, somehow if a deadline is not realistic, I will just do my best, then let it be. Somehow you realize that your work is just a small part of a bigger thing, you just let the universe runs it own course. Whatever will happen will happen. If the world will end tomorrow, then let it be it, when it come then we see how to deal with it.


Other things to add is some thing physiological. My sleeping pattern change quite dramatically. I am sleeping much less but the quality of sleep is better. I used to sleep 6-7 hours, now I only sleep 3-4 hours. I read somewhere this is because I used to use up a lot of energy to think, now the thought streams are slowing down, so I feel less tired, the body suddenly found this new energy, and the sleeping pattern have not adjust back yet.

This irregular sleeping pattern did affect my brain in the day time, sometime there are lapses of concentration. I find myself slowly slowly try to get used to all these new brain activities.

Thanks for the guidance,
Liang

Liang this is all really great. I want you to begin letting go of thought and focus on sensation-before-thought. I want you to look at what is happening in your direct experience rather than thinking about it.

I want you look at what happens in your body when you get up to put your clothes on.

I want you to look at what happens as you go to brush your teeth - and as you brush your teeth.

I want you to sit in your car and tell me what happens inbetween you sitting in your car and you beginning to drive it. If you don't drive then tell me what happens in walking and sitting on public transport, or if you ride a bicycle or a motor bike what happens.

I want you to literally do all these exercises. I want you to be in direct experience of your body - let go of all thought and tell me on a sensation language what is happening.

I want you to point your finger to the moon and tell me what happens

If you begin to write more than a couple of sentences for each exercise you have clearly gone into thinking, sensations of thoughts. So stop - and go back to the exercise and try again. Thank you
will have him look at what's happening instead of thinking about it