Why wait longer?

[hannamaria]

Hi Ray,

There’s a lot of restlessness and tension in the body, and the mind. Everything’s watched and there’s no ”I” in there except from thoughts with ”I”. There is consciousness of everything that’s going on. This typing. The hearing of sounds. There is a feeling if unease in the stomach and pressure by the heart and that tickeling feeling in the back of the head again. There’s a strong desire to end this now. Not exactly a relaxing week-end haha!

Hanna

[ray]

Hi Hanna,

Yes, this process can get somewhat intense. I don't want you to get too stressed. On the other hand a strong desire to be "done" does help.

There’s a lot of restlessness and tension in the body, and the mind.

Let these feelings in, allow them to be without resistance. If this tension is felt as a tightening, a contraction, my advice is to welcome it and to accept it unconditionally. Look at it. Do this and you may notice a loosening, a relaxation, spaciousness and a falling away of those feelings.

Everything’s watched and there’s no ”I” in there except from thoughts with ”I”. There is consciousness of everything that’s going on. This typing. The hearing of sounds.

Those are words I love to hear! :) There's watching...is there a watcher anywhere?

There is a feeling if unease in the stomach and pressure by the heart and that tickeling feeling in the back of the head again. There’s a strong desire to end this now. Not exactly a relaxing week-end haha!

See dealing with tension, above. That feeling at the back of the head can be too much coffee, or it can be a felt sensitivity to the sense of self. Real progress.
There is a strong desire to end this and you say there is no "I" outside of thoughts. Is there anything that needs to be done? Is there anyone to do it?

Walking with you,
with love,
Ray

[hannamaria]

The tingeling feeling in the back of the head is not from coffee and I can’t describe how I react to your questions but it’s intense and confusing...

[ray]

Hi Hanna,

If it's getting confusing let's slow down and look from a different direction.

Please write what is real in this present moment.

When you have done that, look at the following...

We can say that something is real if it is still there when you stop thinking about it.
For example,
1) The chair you are sitting on is real.
2) A Public Library is a bit different. There are real physical components, but also some rules (ideas) and behaviours and interactions between people.
3) Batman is a persona, a character in a story. He can be known about and discussed, but is not real.

Which category does "I", "Hanna" fit in? Please describe this in some detail.

Ray

[hannamaria]

Hi Ray,

I’m sorry it has taken such time answering and I’m afraid I won’t have internet access from Friday around 4 until Sunday evening too. I’m very much in this still though.

What’s real in this present moment:
The sound of a car. the light from the computer screen. The sensation in the fingertips from the keyboard. The head going from one side to the other. The eyes blinking. The words written, appearing as thoughts. Thoughts about what’s being written.

How I can describe myself right now:
I am a physical body that experience and react to itself and it’s surroundings. This physical body discusses its’ experiences by thinking/thoughts. But I or no I, there's knowing of the bodily knowing of experience somehow.

The third category puzzles me now. How will I know I’m not still analysing, thinking, and discussing the charachter as the charachter. And with this said I need to mention something that seems important:
It’s really hard to describe but since your last post I at some point had some sort of notion of how there is a knowing without a return or room for doubt. The memory of that experience gives me an itch now cause it feels like this is a waste of your time…if I just really looked from where I strongly sens I’m already seeing this, it would all be instantly clear. And i’m being honest saying that. Clear to who or what isn’t even an issue there.

Sorry this is a very unorganized post.

Many thanks again to you Ray!

[ray]

Hey Hanna,

I was wondering if you'd gone! Thanks for letting me know about no internet over the weekend.

I’m very much in this still though.

Great, and from what you've said we're nearly there.

What’s real in this present moment:
The sound of a car. the light from the computer screen. The sensation in the fingertips from the keyboard. The head going from one side to the other. The eyes blinking. The words written, appearing as thoughts. Thoughts about what’s being written.

Lovely description. That is all from direct Experience of what is, as it happens, and without the ownership label "I" or "me". I presume the "thoughts about what is being written" are only thoughts and not "your thoughts".

How I can describe myself right now:
I am a physical body that experience and react to itself and it’s surroundings. This physical body discusses its’ experiences by thinking/thoughts. But I or no I, there's knowing of the bodily knowing of experience somehow.

Yes there is a physical body, but is there ownership of the body. Is it "a body" or "your body"?
The body has senses and there is knowing of the experience (of the senses). Is there an "I" there, or in the direct Experience, the knowing, of something is there simply the awareness that THIS IS, before any overlay of thought or any story of ownership of the experience

The third category puzzles me now. How will I know I’m not still analysing, thinking, and discussing the charachter as the charachter.

Don't worry about that. I'd have accepted either answer 1) or answer 2) LOL.
Anyway, with "I" not being the thinker, chooser, walker or doer how can it be the analyser, thinker or discusser?

It’s really hard to describe but since your last post I at some point had some sort of notion of how there is a knowing without a return or room for doubt. The memory of that experience gives me an itch now cause it feels like this is a waste of your time…if I just really looked from where I strongly sens I’m already seeing this, it would all be instantly clear. And i’m being honest saying that. Clear to who or what isn’t even an issue there.

This is not a waste of my time. I'm here as a sort of "talking diary" to keep pointing until you see this clearly. The memory of an experience is not good enough here. This is not about a state that can be revisited, what is being pointed to is an unambiguous seeing. You are looking in the right place. So look with honesty, is there a you?

Happy to be working with you,
Ray

[hannamaria]

Hi Ray!

I won’t go, this will have to take the time necessary. I’m very happy to be working with you too!

There’s again a lot of tension, unease and restlessness. Tried as you’ve suggested to ”drink coffee” with some lump of feelings like fear, loneliness, meaninglessness that has been present and think I need to look deeper there…

Hanna

[ray]

Hi Hanna,

There’s again a lot of tension, unease and restlessness. Tried as you’ve suggested to ”drink coffee” with some lump of feelings like fear, loneliness, meaninglessness that has been present and think I need to look deeper there…

The point here is no to "go deep" in terms of analysing those feelings, working out what where they come from etc.
The point is to simply be the space that those feelings arise in. To allow them to be and simply to experience the bodily sensation they present. That is what you look at. In giving them permission to be you start to deconstruct their power. Look at what is being protected.

Let me know how you get on. And then please answer the questions in my previous post.

Cheers,
Ray

[hannamaria]

Hi!

”Anyway, with "I" not being the thinker, chooser, walker or doer how can it be the analyser, thinker or discusser?”

I feel like decieving myself, I’m still believing myself to be this analyser/thinker...the thoughts have such strong pull…and even if it’s not about being free from them I can’t seam to see ”through” them. But am I not back again to wanting to be able to stand outside of thoughts/feelings/events saying ”Mm yes this is a thought, but I am not that. I’m this!”?

Was I puzzled by the third category cause I’m still believing myself to be this Batman…?
But who’s asking then??

”in the direct Experience, the knowing, of something is there simply the awareness that THIS IS, before any overlay of thought or any story of ownership of the experience”

Yes there’s ”not room” for anything more right? But I get caught up in the afterplay of thoughts as it is now.

I hear myself talking as thoughts are me now...I’m gonna go for a walk and sit with this, which usually enables a possibility to look at this thinking "I". But if I'd truly be doing that, we'd be done right?

Bye for now!

[ray]

That's great stuff Hanna,

Yes, thought is always ready to charge in and claim, label and describe experience.

You are really getting a handle on the difference between intellectually describing this and experientially , err, experiencing it.

So have a good walk and get experiential.

You say "if I'd truly been doing that we'd be done right?" . Yes, but it often bounces around for a while before it settles down. No worries.

Hear from you soon,
Ray

[hannamaria]

It’s evident that there has been a lot of thoughts lately, about other things than this process. But regardless of the content or subject of thoughts, they are just that and no thought can bring me closer to seeing. The knowing’s always here. Including a knowing of any effort made.

[ray]

Hi Hanna,

But regardless of the content or subject of thoughts, they are just that and no thought can bring me closer to seeing. The knowing’s always here. Including a knowing of any effort made.

That all sounds correct. Can anything bring Hanna closer to seeing, or is Hanna and the story of Hanna just more thought content?

Ray

[hannamaria]

It all seams to be just thoughts at the moment, ”my process”. The efforts made to respond are all based in thoughts. Hanna can’t come closer to seeing since Hanna’s just built up of thoughts. How could thoughts see other thoughts or anything?

"Is this truly realized?" pops up. Seen as a thought, a doubt. What’s the difference between them? Doubt appearing as thought with a lot of thoughts around it that soon ends in this ”I” having realised something or not. All just thoughts.

The body being a body and not my body…sensations in the body when writing that.

I will not be able to answer until Sunday again.

Bye for now Ray and thanks again for this oppurtunity!

[ray]

Hi Hanna,

Has there been a shift in perception? Do you see that separate self is an illusion?
Any questions that you want to look into?

Regards,
Ray

[ray]

Please note that I'll be on holiday from Saturday 6th to 20th July with very limited access to the internet.

You can have another guide take over while I'm away,
or you can continue posting daily, reading some threads or the GG book and have occasional input from me.
If yo have a smartphone the Enlightening Quotes App is excellent. http://www.liberationunleashed.com/LU_App.html

Please let me know how you'd like to proceed,

Ray