The Gate

Hi Metta,

Just an added note. I have taken a look at is there a self and unable to find one, the thought of a higher self, a self that is not separate but may be the author of a quiet still voice that once in a while I am tuned in enough to hear. This voice, might it be called a higher self as it seems to address an individual person ( hence it may be termed a self). At this point i don't see a conflict with the goal of this path you are guiding me on. Please correct me if I am mistaken.
No I was not articulate at all but I did not mean anything angry towards you or anyone else.

-Kent

Hi Kent,

No , this is fine. I just wanted there to be understanding that it is me only pointing at various things, ideas to investigate that would lead to some conclusions. As for the other, I thought you were referring to the lawsuit which you were speaking of prior.
I am not so sure I can make this clear for you, perhaps posting again with another guide would be more helpful to you in clarification of no self. I think that is the best idea, though you may have my link to chat if you like, let me know and I will post it. I am not put off by any feelings you may or may not have had. Different guides have different styles.
Let me know what you think of changing guides or whether you wish to continue. I want what I feel is best for you.

Love, Metta

Hi Metta,

It is not my wish to find another guide. If it is your wish. let me know.
I am surprised.
Love,
-Kent

Hi Metta,

Dear Metta,

My last post when I said I was surprised by your leaning on wanting to end this guide, guided relationship was an understatement and so I felt compelled to write this. If this is what you desire, and it sounds like it is, my decision will be most likely to quit this path altogether. I realize that this is not on you in anyway but it is what I feel I will need to do at this point. It is not a pleasant thing that you feel the way you do. I have changed guides once and have felt that it was a good decision but I just don’t feel like doing it all over again but I also don't feel like writing to someone who does not want to be my guide.. Time for me to learn some lessons here but in all honesty I am still processing it all.

Most importantly, I have felt that I am making progress while you seemingly must feel I am not. Why do I make such a statement? Because the questions you have asked permeate my waking life and it is having an effect. It is having an effect in how life is perceived even in decisions on how to interpret events. I can think of one that just happened last night. Sometimes the intellect is ahead of the rest of me. Sometimes it is reversed. This is something that is noticed here. What you may not understand (with me) is that this processing can be very time delayed but ongoing. It probably is not linear either but I can say that there has been learning taking place.

I am sorry we had a miscommunication/misunderstanding but in my mind that is all it was. Nothing more. You have admitted at least partially that that was the case. Had I had it over, I would not have posted the way I did. You have however prompted me to bring up what came up in I believe an effort to exhaust the mind’s objections and so I did.


If I have offended you in anyway, I apologize but apparently you are not offended. This process has not been an easy one.

Regards,

-Kent

Hi Kent,

It is not that I didn't want to be your guide, I had felt that perhaps I was ineffectual in my trying to impart by questioning what was needed. If it has been helping to question what is routinely accepted then that is the important thing. It is not in anyway a personal thing. I am happy to hear that progress is being made. I had thought it was , but then it had seemed to me later that a huge step back had been taken.
So let's continue on.

So there was mention of a voice and is there a feeling that the voice is connected to an identity? Couldn't the voice just be thoughts that were happening? Self is directly connected to what is seen as separation, so a separate self is seen based on what the voice told you or perhaps intuition? Can you look directly at the experience and say that this was a separate self speaking to you? I need clarification where you are at in the process.

Who is aware? What is aware? Is the origination of awareness based on brain function only? Do you have any preconceived beliefs before coming into this that we could talk about? Perhaps religion of some kind?

Love, metta

Hi Kent,

Can a thought think itself? Isn't it like the eyes trying to see themselves? Really look and tell me where awareness ends.



Love, Metta

Hi Metta,

So there was mention of a voice and is there a feeling that the voice is connected to an identity? Couldn't the voice just be thoughts that were happening? Self is directly connected to what is seen as separation, so a separate self is seen based on what the voice told you or perhaps intuition? Can you look directly at the experience and say that this was a separate self speaking to you? I need clarification where you are at in the process.

I would not characterize it as separate but it does seem like a guiding voice.

The experience is both fleeting and somewhat rare for me so a direct look is not possible right now. Even though you are supposed to ask the questions, I can try to partially answer only with a question: haven’t you ever had that small still, calming voice coming in distinguishing it from the fear thoughts? Surely you can relate to this. If it is not one of the fear or self centered, striving thoughts, why is this different? Is it just a different kind of thought or does it come from a different source? I don’t know but it feels like it has a whole entirely different quality to it. I do know that there are moments when the small still voice is more compelling than other times. I don’t know if you have had children but one can get an intuitive sense responding to children and maybe getting a nudge on what to do. Perhaps it is that these thoughts or directions are there but most of us have minds that are too busy to be on that wave length.

Who is aware? What is aware? Is the origination of awareness based on brain function only?

The Buddhists say it is all mind. Myself, I believe that there is kind of river or energy field and lately I have been quieting myself or surrendering to this especially in moments when I feel a little down. It seems the quieter one gets, the easier it is to be part of this. I used to think that I am aware but now it is looking more like awareness is operating through my eyes, ears, nose and the rest of the stuff is made up. So it is using our senses and tuning into awareness.

Do you have any preconceived beliefs before coming into this that we could talk about? Perhaps religion of some kind?

I have studied with a teacher whose focus is finding one’s inner guide. I was not always real successful at it.

Can a thought think itself? Isn't it like the eyes trying to see themselves? Really look and tell me where awareness ends.

Yes thoughts just appear and appear and appear. But perhaps the everyday thought is different from the nudge one occasionally gets or the quiet voice that lets you know something or calm feeling that gives a sense of direction. That is all I am really trying to say here.

All for now,
-Kent

Hi Kent,

Yes, I do have those intuitions or small voice that says run or don't do that. But couldn't that be like in the film I posted, about right brain, left brain. One side is logic and the other more intuitive. where the woman had a stroke and realized Oneness as a side effect. She talked about the difference between the activities of the brain. Most of us are more towards the right brain, but everyone has intuitive voices. Just not everyone listens to them. No, there is no difference, it is still just a thought. Think of the video where there is a gap between a decision being made and the man becoming aware. Of 80 thousand thoughts we have a day, how many do you think you are aware of ?

So there is the perception that we operate through the mind and the brain uses the five senses and thought to weave a convincing story of Kent. But what about someone who gets banged on the head, totally forgets who they are with amnesia and their personality is totally different and they don't recognize former loved ones? Are they dead? Or what happens when you go to sleep? Is there a you still? Let's differentiate personality with self, what is the difference between the two?

Love, Metta

Hi Kent,
One exercise, do your best, if you like write it down. Take away little by little everything that was given to you by someone else. Beliefs, ideas, school, society, culture. Just one by one eliminate those ideas. What is left that is originally self if anything ? Like religious beliefs, or that you should do something, there is usually a big list of shoulds. Your parents taught you, that you should ???????


Love, metta

Hi Metta,
Okay I will make a list but I probably won't get back to you until tomorrow (to do it justice).

Thanks,

-Kent

Hi Kent,

I saw your message yesterday. Lets review this a bit. Thoughts are not self, correct and neither is the body is it?
Children experience life in a certain way, they live directly experiencing on a moment by moment basis. There is not a lot of thought clutter. Adults have had the time to make up a story of Kent or whomever they think they are. Experiences remembered are just that, a story , a concept. Is that you? Or is awareness just a moment by moment direct experience of life living itself or seeing, hearing, thinking, smelling, etc. Or the sensations occurring on a moment by moment basis that there is awareness of? This is not intellectual, it is in seeing the experiential.


Love, metta

Hi Metta,

Lets review this a bit. Thoughts are not self, correct and neither is the body is it?

Correct-o

Children experience life in a certain way, they live directly experiencing on a moment by moment basis. There is not a lot of thought clutter. Adults have had the time to make up a story of Kent or whomever they think they are.

Okay

Experiences remembered are just that, a story , a concept. Is that you? Or is awareness just a moment by moment direct experience of life living itself or seeing, hearing, thinking, smelling, etc.

Right so awareness is the only stillness? It is what watches the movement.

Just an hour ago, driving from one area of Portland to my home, there was a need for some thought, how to get home through traffic in a way that was somewhat efficient. so thoughts came and relied on the past to fill it in on a route that might be not slogging through traffic and while in those thoughts, I felt I was probably not right in the now but not knowing how else to do this without bringing in the past. The past narrative was when I drove here before... and this is where I stumble, Metta. I hope I this makes sense?


Or the sensations occurring on a moment by moment basis that there is awareness of? This is not intellectual, it is in seeing the experiential.

Why do i need to reremember this over and over.

You are old enough to remember E.E. Cummings who never capitalized I.

I will submit the other post right after this.

Thanks for hanging in there for a stubborn case.

Love,

-Kent

l

Hello Metta,

One exercise, do your best, if you like write it down. Take away little by little everything that was given to you by someone else. Beliefs, ideas, school, society, culture. Just one by one eliminate those ideas. What is left that is originally self if anything ? Like religious beliefs, or that you should do something, there is usually a big list of shoulds. Your parents taught you, that you should ???????

Just a very partial list:

Believe in god. obey your parents, be polite, be clean, successful people are to be admired, slow down, believe in the Lord, Jesus Christ, don’t be weird. Be normal. Be quiet. Don’t rock the boat. Work hard. Get rich. Look good. Love thy neighbor. Mind your manners. Don’t be a jerk. Look your best. Question authority. Take refuge in the Buddha. Don’t cry. You’re handsome. You’re skinny. You’re fat. You’re too young. You’re too old. Be cool. You’re funny. You need to work harder. You need to work smarter. You’re creative. Follow directions. The man is the head of the family. Women are the fairer sex. God is masculine. God is love. God has a feminine side. God is all. Be still and know. Just this.
You can be happy if you have lots of money, drop your ego, help others out, stop the self cherishing, let go – let god, meditate regularly, do yoga, be still, be with nature, own lots of things, have really good things, have a better job, a better car, travel, find a guru, have lots of friends, stop the story, surrender to god……………

Thanks for being my guide,
-Kent

Hi Kent,

Good!!

Experiences remembered are just that, a story , a concept. Is that you? Or is awareness just a moment by moment direct experience of life living itself or seeing, hearing, thinking, smelling, etc.

Right so awareness is the only stillness? It is what watches the movement.

Just an hour ago, driving from one area of Portland to my home, there was a need for some thought, how to get home through traffic in a way that was somewhat efficient. so thoughts came and relied on the past to fill it in on a route that might be not slogging through traffic and while in those thoughts, I felt I was probably not right in the now but not knowing how else to do this without bringing in the past. The past narrative was when I drove here before... and this is where I stumble, Metta. I hope I this makes sense?

Has there ever been an experience of driving and then suddenly the awareness that you are close to your destination not remembering the drive ? Memory is conditioning that is stored in the magical brain of ours which put things into categories and organizes the data base, just like a living computer. When a problem comes up the brain trots out the likely solution from memory. This is not the definition of awareness. It is auto-pilot. Rats do it in mazes. So many of these types of things happen everyday. We don't give much thought to getting up, putting our clothes on, eating, coffee, getting into the car, we have done it thousands of times.
Isn't Awareness actually the process of being conscious moment by moment? Just being here NOW. Could awareness be seen as a verb instead of a noun in the process of living. Awareness also being a noun and all that is, everywhere, every moment. a thought arises, the brain recognizes and becomes aware of it, then it adds lightening quick, emotion and concepts like, my thought, me,mine, them, us, good,bad, cold,hot. Before that addition to the thought arising what is there originally? Just pure awareness with no concepts. Is it possible just to look without prior concepts or judgement or categories?

That the fabricated self, is a million of those moments strung together by the brain, organized into a pattern, reinforced by the list you gave me. We get trapped into those molds that someone else made. what a heavy burden that list is. It is carried day after day and it is not even yours!!!

Memory is a mechanical process, you learn in school how to do math, you get paid, you sort out the bills. But LIVING, is that the same thing?? Or is the recognition of breathing,seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, the experiental , existential, meaning of awareness. Can there be an ending line to that experience of awareness? If living this that is Now is it?

Can a thought think itself. Can awareness see itself? or is it the experience of it?

Now dump the list, :-)

Love, metta

Hi Metta,

I managed to reply without replying somehow so I try again.

Isn't Awareness actually the process of being conscious moment by moment? Just being here NOW. Could awareness be seen as a verb instead of a noun in the process of living. Awareness also being a noun and all that is,

I love this. This is very original to me.

everywhere, every moment. a thought arises, the brain recognizes and becomes aware of it, then it adds lightening quick, emotion and concepts like, my thought, me,mine, them, us, good,bad, cold,hot. Before that addition to the thought arising what is there originally? Just pure awareness with no concepts. Is it possible just to look without prior concepts or judgement or categories?

Yes I have done this when very slowed down.

That the fabricated self, is a million of those moments strung together by the brain, organized into a pattern, reinforced by the list you gave me. We get trapped into those molds that someone else made. what a heavy burden that list is. It is carried day after day and it is not even yours!!!

Yes, it is almost like no list. no Kent. So much of the list has a moral quality and unfortunately adopting lots of these rules can also have the effect of strengthening the "I" by having a kind of self talk of I am a person that follows this moral code...

Memory is a mechanical process, you learn in school how to do math, you get paid, you sort out the bills. But LIVING, is that the same thing??

Well thinking is part of living but real experiential living is a whole other richer part of life.

Or is the recognition of breathing,seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, the experiental , existential, meaning of awareness.

So the witnessing of all of this or what truly experiences all of this is and you or me are the same because we are different facets of the same gem or drops of water that are part of the same sea. This is starting to become clearer and not just in an intellectual way. I guess because it is the same taste the same river running through us all because it is too difficult to imagine that this taste is mine alone.

Can there be an ending line to that experience of awareness? If living this that is Now is it?

It seems to be a continually flowing river of life but of course the person dies at some point but it is difficult to imagine that this "river" does

Can a thought think itself.

No, a thought seems like an imaginative label.

Can awareness see itself? or is it the experience of it?

i have read that an eye cannot see itself so how can awareness and this is seemingly true. Awareness just is and perhaps we are reflectors. That is not original to me but it seems the explanation that most rings true. Awareness tastes, sees, hears, feels, experiences it and we are also it. So it seems like there is this river of life and what truly experiences it is awareness and we are part of this awareness. But what is beyond awareness or is there a beyond awareness? Maybe there is just awareness.

Got to sit with this one.

Love,

-Kent