Requesting a guide

[Sarah7]

Hi Chris

This may sounds strange, and overly simplistic, but do you have any advice or one who seems to have trouble looking? It is the simplest thing, but the analyzing, labeling... seem to complicate it every time. You tell me to just look. Then there is the catch 22, i try to look, but in doing so it seems the looking becomes tainted.

OK and not to worry – looking and noticing – lets just say that I ask you to look for ‘I’ – is it located inside the head, the arms, the legs, the thoughts, the sensations, the feelings and emotions….. where is it? So you look in the head – is it there, can you hear you are there, can you feel you are there? Is there a person sitting in there or is it just thoughts in there? Whilst you are looking is there a voice speaking, are there feelings still feeling, are there sensations still being sensed? Looking and noticing is only noticing what is happening – and if you notice fear and frustration – then you would say there is a noticing of fear and frustration. Looking is like standing on a pavement watching the cars go by – whilst looking for the gold plated diamond encrusted special car – you notice the others but you don’t need to stop them. You look for ‘I’ and notice frustration, you look for ‘I’ and notice fear.

I would also say you do know how to look (below statement clearly shows this) – but you are looking for something you think is there but cant find! You are looking for something you expect and it isn’t showing up!

Like I had said earlier with the fear, and now with the frustration, as i try to hunt them down, they disappear like smoke.

WOW! Good observation! Exactly! Now HUNT down ‘I’! Does that disappear like smoke too?????

Habitually there is still a draw to who, and that who is I. When allowing it to happen, and taking that step back out of the drama there is just the experience.

How do you know this, other than through thought? How do you know there is an ‘I’ other than through thought?

The experience happens. It is generally fleeting and short lived.

Are you expecting it to be constant? What is constant? Tell me one thing that is constant?

Not expecting i to disappear. More along the lines of my being to be clearer.

But what wants it to be clearer? Thoughts? Mind?

Last night was tracing the for where 'I" came from. The innate bring at birth, and then she shaping and molding though teaching, experiences, and what becomes memories. And the question, 'what was your face before you were born?' The shaping o my self-identity through life thus far has clouded and muddied the view of the world. it has made the lens that should be clear opaque. 'I' is the film on the glass that prevents seeing and living in complete clarity. it would be nice if he glass were a bit cleaner.

No offence but this sounds like it has been read. A belief. A story. What makes and weaves stories and always will? What clouds and muddies? What prevents you from seeing because there is attention being paid to what it says rather than watching it do the chatting!

What i know intellectually has to become incorporated as belief.

‘I’ is not real – so how can ‘I’ hold or incorporate a belief? ‘Intellectually’ – is mind, is a thought or thoughts or story. What says ‘has to’? Mind? Thoughts?

The problem is, if it was a true belief, like - i i drop this rock, it will fall.

Is this a belief? Or just is? Do you have to believe the rock will fall before it will fall? Especially if it is a ‘true’ belief? Are any beliefs true or real or are they simply thoughts?

It has happened while driving (unfortunately not nearly often enough - would make road trips a breeze). When doing acupuncture, some of the best work is done if I am busy and don't have time for my head to get in the way.

You cannot control this but you can notice when noticing happens. Once seen you will see again. Look for it elsewhere – I bet there are other times!

I do not control the happening, but there is still the holding on to the old beliefs, trying to shake them out.

What has beliefs? What are beliefs? Thoughts? Thoughts backed up by other thoughts? Reinforced by other thoughts? A long line of thoughts and therefore a story?

"I" truly cannot hold onto anything,

How can something invisible hang onto anything? If you cant find an ‘I’ then there isn’t one – is this true? If you feel an ‘I’ – then is it just a feeling? If you sense an ‘I’ then isn’t it just a sense?

Knowing and accepting and surrendering to me not being in control? LIBERATION! it would not change what gets done. It would not change anything except there would be the freedom to let go of the tension that is holding on trying to keep everything in perfect order.

Is that tension being held by an I, or is it just body habit? What or who after liberation will "let go" of it?
Just remember to breathe Chris - you are doing fine.
Love Sarah xx

[truthseeker]

Hi Sarah and thank you,

Your last reply really hit the nail on the head, and clarified a lot for me. Sometimes just like to check my foundation.

You look for ‘I’ and notice frustration, you look for ‘I’ and notice fear.

I would also say you do know how to look (below statement clearly shows this) – but you are looking for something you think is there but cant find! You are looking for something you expect and it isn’t showing up!
truthseeker wrote:
Like I had said earlier with the fear, and now with the frustration, as i try to hunt them down, they disappear like smoke.

WOW! Good observation! Exactly! Now HUNT down ‘I’! Does that disappear like smoke too?????

Therein lies my problem. I have been trying to find i, and it is no where to be found. It's friend fear has gone away, frustration seems to have given up too. It is like the room is empty..... now that i see it like this - well, there is a BIG smile. hahaha. At least the other guys (fear and frustration) could put up a fight. they were projections of the man behind the curtain, but when the curtain was pulled there was no one there. It didn't even bother to disappear, because only projections can seem to appear.

Wow, very unexpected. thank you again. Was planning on taking days to work through all the steps. What a fantastic question. Could have been searching forever for that bugger, but cant fond something not there.

How do you know this, other than through thought? How do you know there is an ‘I’ other than through thought?

An answer eludes me. Yes through thought, but they are so deep and constant. In the ocean, if thoughts are waves, the smallest ripples on the waves, the undercurrent, thoughts on that deep level confirm I. But they are still thoughts.

Wow - sure hope this is still with me in the morning. The slipknot.... thank you.

Are you expecting it to be constant? What is constant? Tell me one thing that is constant?

Change

But what wants it to be clearer? Thoughts? Mind?

Desire - thoughts with a pretty scent.

No offence but this sounds like it has been read. A belief. A story. What makes and weaves stories and always will? What clouds and muddies? What prevents you from seeing because there is attention being paid to what it says rather than watching it do the chatting!

None taken. Truly was what was going though. tracing the formation of I while lying awake. But (like most people on this forum) have read a few Buddhist and Taoist books. If they didn't affect my patterns of thought Surprise would be in order. Thoughts, desires, labels, filers, expectations, judgement... they all cloud and muddle. Making a soap opera about me clouds and muddles. Rather than seeing and experiencing and observing, everything is put into the context of me somehow as the center of everything. That distorts and muddies everything,

‘I’ is not real – so how can ‘I’ hold or incorporate a belief? ‘Intellectually’ – is mind, is a thought or thoughts or story. What says ‘has to’? Mind? Thoughts?

I don't know. Thoughts, thoughts layered upon each other. Desires. Not feeling like that now.

Is this a belief? Or just is? Do you have to believe the rock will fall before it will fall? Especially if it is a ‘true’ belief? Are any beliefs true or real or are they simply thoughts?

What has beliefs? What are beliefs? Thoughts? Thoughts backed up by other thoughts? Reinforced by other thoughts? A long line of thoughts and therefore a story?

OK - it is different for everyone. Like going into a pool. I thought it may be alike taking the stairs. What you did to me was like when i went on a class trip as a kid. We were canoeing. The water was shallow, and we were stuck. I got out and pushed. I was in up to my knees, the water was kind of cold. I walked a bit and pushed the canoe. Suddenly there was a hole and i was underwater over my head. Then pulled myself up.... Anyway, I thought i was taking the stairs into this and would have to go in step by step. That earlier question was the hole, and i fell in all the way. The belief statement I had made is now moot, as that was how I thought it would have to happen. But, to answer the question - they are all thoughts.

You cannot control this but you can notice when noticing happens. Once seen you will see again. Look for it elsewhere – I bet there are other times!

i will

How can something invisible hang onto anything? If you cant find an ‘I’ then there isn’t one – is this true? If you feel an ‘I’ – then is it just a feeling? If you sense an ‘I’ then isn’t it just a sense?

yes

Is that tension being held by an I, or is it just body habit? What or who after liberation will "let go" of it?
Just remember to breathe Chris - you are doing fine.

Body habits. They tend to be associated with postural carrying patterns, ergonomics and thoughts and emotions. None of those are I. After liberation - possible thought or emotional pattern shift, less attachment, and control (huge holding pattern cause). Additionally, a greater awareness at the moment can assist in more real-time small modifications in the tensions. Or not.

Patients with anxiety that I have had the privilege to work with have had excellent resolutions. But even once the anxiety is gone, they develop a new one - that it will come back. I feel like them. I don't want to go to sleep, what if I wake and this is gone, and 'I' am back to I? (I know - totally silly - guess we will find out tomorrow).

Infinite thanks and gratitude.

Love,
Chris

[Sarah7]

Hi Chris

Wow - there seems to have been a shift? How are you feeling?

Final questions time I think! :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

Just answer as you see, when ready and in full.

Lots of love Sarah xxx

[truthseeker]

Hello Sarah,

I certainly had a shift last night. What has been seen cannot be unseen. I am not where i was last night. It has been a very busy day today, and although there are still the old habits are still there, There is the reality where 'i' or maybe 'not i' can return to, thank you or giving me the map.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. It was like being in a giant room. looking for the fear, and the frustration. They were gone. Then suddenly the truth hit me why I couldnt be found and was never seen or felt. I never was, and is not. There is no self. There is no I.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

This one would have been a snap last night. The separate self is the one who controls. The one who views what is in the narrow context of me. When something happens, it happens to me, by me and from me. It must start with language. With labeling. With categorizing and separating. Then possessing and controlling. The conventions of language and patterns of thought develop around that shell. The reality we live(d) in is encased within it. and at the very center is I. The illusion is I, the core or essence, is a separate entity acting, doing, being individually. Controlling, shaping and molding. And the illusion has us detached from everything else.

There is no separate self. We are all part of something much bigger and many people have many names for it.
This is an awareness experiencing. The awareness is a part of everything / the universe. It is like the first brush I had whist having that drink at lunch. The understanding that there was anxiety, and other emotions. They were not me. They were happening, but i was aware of, not owning, or controlling them (or having them own or control me).

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels like a breath of fresh air. As stated above, last night was amazing. Just seeing how it has been there all along, . Tonight has not recaptured the experience, but there is an awareness that it is sinking and settling in. While working today, there were multiple times working on patients that the connection felt deeper, like the experience was transcending boundaries that had previously been placed up. That listening was really connecting, even speaking there was sometimes a sense of hearing myself talk.
The difference since before starting the dialog? there has been a greater sense of equanimity. It has been growing, and really more stability ad the drama that would become my being is no longer as attached. At the same time interpersonal connections seem to be easier (unexpected outcome), perhaps as listening is improving.

And the amazing thing. Knowing the thoughts, emotions, etc are not what I am is incredibly liberating. Being able to step back from that whirlwind and observe from the state of calmness is incredible. It also modulates the intensity of those forces that can so easily get me swept up.

The past few days have been the best. Again, thank you. There was really the frustration, the feeling of hitting a low point. I thank you again Sarah for sticking with me. There was that desperation, and you found the right things to say to completely flip what was my low point into liberation.
It feels like
I am not saying that I am there yet. I am not even saying I was there last night, but whatever happened last night was beautiful.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

That was the best part. Probably the quote from last night tells it best:

Sarah7 wrote:
I would also say you do know how to look (below statement clearly shows this) – but you are looking for something you think is there but cant find! You are looking for something you expect and it isn’t showing up!
truthseeker wrote:
Like I had said earlier with the fear, and now with the frustration, as i try to hunt them down, they disappear like smoke.

WOW! Good observation! Exactly! Now HUNT down ‘I’! Does that disappear like smoke too?????

Therein lies my problem. I have been trying to find i, and it is no where to be found. It's friend fear has gone away, frustration seems to have given up too. It is like the room is empty..... now that i see it like this - well, there is a BIG smile. hahaha. At least the other guys (fear and frustration) could put up a fight. they were projections of the man behind the curtain, but when the curtain was pulled there was no one there. It didn't even bother to disappear, because only projections can seem to appear.
Wow, very unexpected. thank you again. Was planning on taking days to work through all the steps. What a fantastic question. Could have been searching forever for that bugger, but cant find something not there.

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

"I" thought i did. Wow, trying not to go in too many circles. The illusion was that there was an I, under that premise decision, intention, choice and control are all done. All doing is done. All making is made, all feeling is felt. I do not do any of it. I does not exist. It is done by a thinking rational being. "I" get to observe that process, to feel it, to be in it, but not to control it. The example that comes to mind is how you kept bringing me back to "my" thoughts. But they were really thoughts that "i" was observing, not controlling or making. Another example frequently given is breathing. It makes total sense. I don't breathe. Breathing happens. I, Chris, do not control events. Events happen that I get to experience and be a part of.

6) Anything to add?

I know there are no right and wrong answers. The answers I gave were the best way I could put experience into words. What side of the gateless gate I am on, you would be the better judge. Without a doubt there was a profound shift last night (there is a part that kicks me for going to sleep and ending it). There is a sense this is a lot like upon graduation from acupuncture school they told us " now you are ready to start learning - without hurting anyone. It is like a first step into a new world to explore and experience.

Thank you again.
Love,
Chris

[Sarah7]

Hi Chris
Sorry Im late replying. There are a few things need looking at if you are OK to keep going a little longer?

and at the very center is I. The illusion is I, the core or essence, is a separate entity acting, doing, being individually. Controlling, shaping and molding. And the illusion has us detached from everything else.

If you do not exist how can you be at the centre? Am I understanding you here? Are you saying there is a separate entity? I being real then - a separate entity?

The understanding that there was anxiety, and other emotions. They were not me. They were happening, but i was aware of, not owning, or controlling them (or having them own or control me).

Knowing the thoughts, emotions, etc are not what I am is incredibly liberating. Being able to step back from that whirlwind and observe from the state of calmness is incredible.

It is done by a thinking rational being. "I" get to observe that process, to feel it, to be in it, but not to control it. The example that comes to mind is how you kept bringing me back to "my" thoughts. But they were really thoughts that "i" was observing, not controlling or making.

Are you saying here that you are the observer? If so you need to look again. Can you find someone standing behind you watching? Is there a gold plated diamond encrusted special car watching another gold plated diamond encrusted special car? Or is there just seeing – NOT OWNED? Could it be that you ‘think’ you are watching? HUNT this observer down!

There is a sense this is a lot like upon graduation from acupuncture school they told us " now you are ready to start learning - without hurting anyone. It is like a first step into a new world to explore and experience.

You are correct. This is the start.
Love Sarah xx

[truthseeker]

Hi Sarah,

No problem with a late reply. And i am prepared to go as long as it takes.

If you do not exist how can you be at the centre? Am I understanding you here? Are you saying there is a separate entity? I being real then - a separate entity?

Perhaps it was not well worded. Sometimes, there is a tendency to draw too metaphorical. The center I was referring to was once the layers of illusions were peeled back, there was what they were protecting which was I. But all of the protecting was to preserve the illusion that there was actually an I. Preventing from discovering there is not.

Are you saying here that you are the observer? If so you need to look again. Can you find someone standing behind you watching? Is there a gold plated diamond encrusted special car watching another gold plated diamond encrusted special car? Or is there just seeing – NOT OWNED? Could it be that you ‘think’ you are watching? HUNT this observer down!

There is not observer. There is awareness. To have the observer is to have an I to observe. The observer as an entity is another facet of I. There is the awareness of being and all that comes with it. The awareness is universal and not belonging to me.

Love,
Chris

[Sarah7]

Hi Chris

There is the awareness of being and all that comes with it. The awareness is universal and not belonging to me.

This awareness – is it from experiencing or deduction and thought? Is it something you just ‘know’ or something that feels like it has been worked out and the penny has finally dropped?
How do you feel now?
Love Sarah xx

[truthseeker]

Hello Sarah,

This awareness – is it from experiencing or deduction and thought? Is it something you just ‘know’ or something that feels like it has been worked out and the penny has finally dropped?
How do you feel now?
Love Sarah xx

The awareness is certainly from experience. Again, as with anything thus far, not an experience that can be replicated seemingly at will, but an experience I can call upon. In describing it observe was not an accurate word. Experience fits much more closely. More than something I know intellectually. It is something I know to be real. It could be considered worked out in the respect that I reflected on the words observer and awareness. That left no room for doubt, as observer conjured the image of a man with a notebook documenting. Awareness is fully experiencing the state.
Whether then penny has dropped, looking for some down time this weekend to explore that. As of right now, there seems to be much more awareness of habitual patterns. And more awareness overall.

Love,
Chris

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[truthseeker]

Awareness is also expansive and universal. Limitless in potential. Far surpassing any constructed walls of self. Observation is more focused and constrained.

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[Sarah7]

Hi Chris
Thank you for the answers. I am going to put your responses to the other guides to see if I have missed anything out - because you are my first client! I will let you know as soon as they come back to me. They may ask more questions or they may confirm - I hope you are ok with that.
We also have a facebook page that is available for 'new arrivals' if your interested. I can let you know how to join that later if you wish.
I will get back to you as soon as possible.
Lots of love Sarah xxx

[Sarah7]

Hi Chris
There are a couple of questions that have come up from the experienced guides.

The awareness is certainly from experience. Again, as with anything thus far, not an experience that can be replicated seemingly at will, but an experience I can call upon. In describing it observe was not an accurate word. Experience fits much more closely. More than something I know intellectually. It is something I know to be real.

Awareness is also expansive and universal. Limitless in potential. Far surpassing any constructed walls of self.

And are you this awareness you speak of?

If you just take a minute to sit and quieten down first before looking at this next question.

And then take in this question deeply before responding with whatever shows up.

With Chris having left the building fully and completely, what's left?

Love Sarah xx

[truthseeker]

Hi Sarah,

I appreciate you checking if it is the real deal. Funny, normally if there is a test I want to give the "correct" answer. Now if I am not there I just want to know and keep plugging away. That's why it means so much to me this was sent up the ladder.

There are a couple of questions that have come up from the experienced guides.

The awareness is certainly from experience. Again, as with anything thus far, not an experience that can be replicated seemingly at will, but an experience I can call upon. In describing it observe was not an accurate word. Experience fits much more closely. More than something I know intellectually. It is something I know to be real.

Awareness is also expansive and universal. Limitless in potential. Far surpassing any constructed walls of self.

And are you this awareness you speak of?

There are glimpses of this awareness. Moments where that is all that seems to be. There is a sense of a trick question since there is no I (or you). With that said, what was in the place of the I that was being hunted down was the realization that what is consciousness, or being or what had been constructed as I was awareness being boxed in. So, the short answer is yes.

If you just take a minute to sit and quieten down first before looking at this next question.

And then take in this question deeply before responding with whatever shows up.

With Chris having left the building fully and completely, what's left?

The building. No kidding. And the knowing that the walls of it are not Chris. The occupants are not Chris. It is all still there. Now I know there is a door. Even getting caught up in drama today, there is that shift into stepping into awareness.

Thank you,
Love
Chris




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[truthseeker]

Just to elaborate slightly on my last statement (now that I am back on a computer)... There is some confusion as to the metaphor of being gone from the building. If the assumption is that it is the illusory shell the self has established. Then there is no building. If it is the constraints of ego, then there is the freedom to come and go (like my previous answer). If it is the mind? Then at the core, where the self sat in the throne? There is an empty seat.

And if - (used google to get the other meaning), - it means the show has ended... that Chris has reached the goal? Oh no, if anything, the starting line has just been found. This is certainly the beginning. Like when a seed cracks open. Having that flash of awareness, that being universal, and nothing at the same time. That is the journey that is right here, right now.

Apologies for 8 answers to a simple question. If your question was not in fact address, please let me know.

Thank you for your patience.
Love,
Chris

[Sarah7]

Thanks for your patience Chris.
Still waiting for replies as the guides work from all over the world. Will be with you as soon as possible. OK.
Sarah xx

[truthseeker]

Hi Sarah,
No rush. I am certainly prepared for whichever answer they give, and comfortable with them taking as long as they need to make that decision. On another note, Elena is having an intensive in NYC this weekend that I am planning on attending (I hope that is within the rules ;-). It will be nice to get together with others on this journey.

Thank you for keeping me posted.
Love,
Chris