No problem.I've taken a lot of time with this one today. I don't think I know for certain that there is no "I".
It feels like I get stuck in thoughts. I've gone over the exercises we did earlier with hearing and feeling and with those I feel like I get it and see no "I".No problem.
You have not seen that there is no 'I'. Ok, so therefore you currently believe that there is an 'I'.
What form does this 'I' take?
The illusion has been seen through, but thought comes back in and says 'I' am mistaken. 'I' get it, but 'I' don't get it.It feels like I get stuck in thoughts. I've gone over the exercises we did earlier with hearing and feeling and with those I feel like I get it and see no "I".
They can be a major stumbling block.But when it comes to thoughts I get stuck.
Generally speaking we say 'I think', 'I have a thought'.I see that I do not know what my next thought will be. I also see that I cannot force or create my next thought. But neither of those have led me to not see I in thought.
Everyone is unique. Every 'seeing' is unique. I appreciate your open-ness about being a thinker.I don't know how others are or if I am a bad case, but I am very much in my head. I have strong thoughts, always thinking, constant stream of discussion with myself.
Find the thinker? Really LOOK! Is there one? Or do both the big thinker and the little thinker exists only as thoughts themselves?So when I look into thought I feel like I am trying to use thought to see that there is no thinker. Like a little thinker is trying to prove there is no big thinker but the little thinker is still there.
Next thing you'll tell me the Easter Bunny and Batman aren't real either! :)"I" is a thought - It is a mental phantom. It is something that is often talked about and referred to, but when searched for nothing is found. Like Santa Claus. (I hope that statement hasn't ruined all Christmases for you from now on).
When I look I find nothing. No feeling or response.The illusion has been seen through, but thought comes back in and says 'I' am mistaken. 'I' get it, but 'I' don't get it.
Question the thought - What is this 'I' that doesn't get it? Can you find anything?
I don't find any 'I'. When I look I don't see anything.Generally speaking we say 'I think', 'I have a thought'.
What 'I' thinks (hence, creates thoughts).
What 'I' owns or controls thoughts? Is there one?
What thoughts can be controlled or created? Find a thought that 'I' has a control over, and trace back to see what 'I' created it. Look into Direct Experience - Is there one? Or is there nothing? No controller? No creator?
Is there an 'I' to be found in thought? Is there an 'I' to be found in the senses or the body? Is there an 'I' of any description anywhere at all?
Big thinker and little thinker are all just more thought. It is all thought. Thought just is, no I in thought. I see the logic of it all, just don't SEE it yet. I am going to spend some more time looking.Find the thinker? Really LOOK! Is there one? Or do both the big thinker and the little thinker exists only as thoughts themselves?
The answer will not be found by spending time thinking about it.I am going to spend some more time looking.
Ok, so this means . . . what?When I look I find nothing. No feeling or response.
Okaaaaay, so this means . . . what??I don't find any 'I'. When I look I don't see anything.
Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, so this means . . . what????Big thinker and little thinker are all just more thought. It is all thought. Thought just is, no I in thought.
There is no I.Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, so this means . . . what????
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Is there even an 'I' that has seen through the illusion?There is no I.
I don't know. I am not saying that to dodge the question, I really don't know. I'm not seeing a strong response one way or the other.Is there even an 'I' that has seen through the illusion?
I guess because I don't know then maybe it is not clear?You've looked and you say that there is no 'I'. Is it clear?
No problem - I understand. You're just being honest.Is there even an 'I' that has seen through the illusion?
I don't know. I am not saying that to dodge the question, I really don't know. I'm not seeing a strong response one way or the other.
Ok. What exactly is this one that says 'I guess, I don't know' - Describe that one to me.You've looked and you say that there is no 'I'. Is it clear?
I guess because I don't know then maybe it is not clear?
Absolutely, and that's where I do understand it (perhaps just logically?). But maybe the fact that it doesn't change anything is what is hanging me up? I understand there are no bright lights and angels singing when you get it, but is there absolutely no change? No different feeling? 'I' don't feel any different.
If you couldn't find an 'I' that would mean there isn't one, wouldn't it?
When I look at what says I guess or I don't know, I only find thought and labels. It is just descriptions of feelings, really.Ok. What exactly is this one that says 'I guess, I don't know' - Describe that one to me.
If I searched under my bed for a teapot and didn't find one, it would only be a logical conclusion that there isn't one there? Or would it mean that there really isn't one there?Absolutely, and that's where I do understand it (perhaps just logically?).
What do you expect to change? What did you expect to happen?. . . no bright lights and angels singing when you get it, but is there absolutely no change?
'I' don't feel any different.
'I' cannot be found other than as a thought then?When I look at what says I guess or I don't know, I only find thought and labels. It is just descriptions of feelings, really.
Thank for this analogy. I do see it means there really isn't one.If I searched under my bed for a teapot and didn't find one, it would only be a logical conclusion that there isn't one there? Or would it mean that there really isn't one there?
I think I expected something that signaled or signified that 'I' got it.What do you expect to change? What did you expect to happen?
You were looking for a physical feeling?
Right now, present, there is nothing in my immediate experience that is 'I' or 'me'. Any I or me is added after the fact. If I look right now there is nothing.'I' cannot be found other than as a thought then?
Each 'seeing' is unique and what happens at the moment of 'seeing' can't be predicted.
Let us go back to the start then.
Keep the logic out. Keep the thinking out. Time to get real.
You came here to see through the illusion of self, that there is no separate entity behind the word ‘me’.
Right now! What in your immediate experience does the word 'I', point to? What is 'me'?
Cool, Rob.Right now, present, there is nothing in my immediate experience that is 'I' or 'me'. Any I or me is added after the fact. If I look right now there is nothing.
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