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Re: Artzo need guide

Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:15 pm
by artzo
Can you know what will come up next? Then why worry about it?
There is no knowing what comes up next. Worry about it seem very unnecessary.
After 5 minutes you can come back to the state of trying to understand, achieve, see something. But just for 5 min let whatever is here be enough. 


Write to me what happens. 
It much calmer and nicer when just being without trying to do or achieve or understand.
Nice to not be involved in so much thinking. Thoughts come yes, but no focus on them, not anything that has to be done to them.
Then for another 5 min, intensely focus on question: is there a self, that focuses? What is that is seeing? Is there effort in seeing? Can you try harder to see with eyes? Does it affect the seen? 
Focusing creates tension, there is only mindloops of thoughts trying to find another set of thoughts coming up with an answer. But thoughts seem to ask more questions and not answers any question.
If an answer comes up new questions arise asking is this so?

Focus wander around, other thoughts about clock, other stuff emerge, then focus is back to questions again.

Focus is triggered by events or thoughts, rather then being created by a self.

Seeing is happening when eyes are open. There is no effort in seeing. I can strain my eyes but it does not effect what is seen. It might affect the sharpness of sight a bit, but does not change what is seen.

Re: Artzo need guide

Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:19 pm
by Ilona
Nice work.
Yes. Seeing is on by default.

Imagine you are looking for keys. You are looking everywhere, there is tension, and if you pic up some things, you know it is not the keys, you will keep searching and search will end when you find them. There is recognition- yes, here they are, and that's what ends the search.
The same is here with looking.
To continue analogy, imagine you found the keys in your hand. They always been there, but somehow you did not see them. They have been here all along.
What you are looking to see is what you are seeing already. There is nothing, but this. Content is always changing, but there is always perception of something. Is there a gap between perceived and perceiver? Or it's one movement of life labeled perceiving? Can that be switched off?
What is behind feeling of aliveness?

Sending love.

Re: Artzo need guide

Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:16 pm
by artzo
Is there a gap between perceived and perceiver? Or it's one movement of life labeled perceiving? Can that be switched off?
What is behind feeling of aliveness?
There is only perceived in this instant
Life is just moving and in that moving thought and feelings also arise.
It can be feelings and thoughts triggering resistance but it can not be switch off.

Behind aliveness is stillness or emptiness.
Experience appear, it glimmers for a short while and then disappear back into nothingness.
All is just spontaneous reactions. Fire react to wood in a certain way, it does not need a doer or thinker.
Life ask no questions about where it should go or not go, it just flows.
Mind asks questions but that is its function, to analyze, learn, absorb information, and in doing so it often creates an instant flow of thoughts which trigger feelings, which mind reacts to in a natural way trying to handle or solve creating more feelings.
Mind create a world of thoughts and gets tangled up in an instant looping of old patterns.
Somewhere along the way we learn to identify with the I the whole world are pointing to.
It creates even more pressure to the mind.
Not only has it to learn and solve day to day problems now it also must protect this I from all the dangers that can emerge, real or thought-based fantasies.
So mind is put in high alert mode always on the lookout for danger, always there to protect this precious I.
How does it do it, it creates endless thought-streams of thoughts imaginary scenarios on how to protect the honor, the health, the reputation and so on of this I.
It creates a lot of fear having a belief to act to all situations with caution.
It is not doing it out of spite, it is doing it as it what it does and that is what is thought to be necessary to protect this body, this mind, this I, this history, this image of self.

We learn this I is precious, and therefore it is necessary to protect it well.
A good way to protect something is to create fear of what is dangerous, it does not matter if it is real danger or imagined danger.

Somewhere along the way we also learn this I is flawed, so now it is even more pressure, to change a flawed I and at the same time also protect it and trying to adapt it to the society and peoples norms.
So we try to change this I, that only has the decency to emerge in thoughts, so we try to change something that is just emerging as thoughts pointing to something else or just a word.
Yes that will work hehe :)
Or we start searching our way learning about enlightenment, higher self, lower self, no self.
So we start to try to evolve this I to a better higher enlightenment self, or we try to eliminate the I.
Good luck with that as well as the I still only has the decency to emerge as a thought.
So what is left, drop the struggle and see life for what it is.
I is a fantasy, a thought-based story, a fairytale or nightmare that is kept alive only with thoughts.
I is a word.
Nothing else can be found, and the search can go on for million of years if following the mind-babbling, the words saying this is not it, there must be something else.

Blah blah blah blah hehehe :)
Is this seeing or just mind babbling don't know but it felt good to write as it seemed to loosen the grip and hate of the mind-function. Temporary or not don’t know that either.
Don't know much huh :P

Re: Artzo need guide

Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:27 pm
by Ilona
Yes, great report. How does it feel to see this?

Re: Artzo need guide

Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:38 pm
by artzo
While looking and writing it fellt like natural flow.
What happened after was another thing hehehe
Fear, doubt, fear, doubt, more thoughts and then some feelings and more thoughts.
Relief, dissapointment.
Was this it, what a bummer :)
Joy and humouristic feeling.
Looking looking and the joke is there is nothing to look for.
Then some doubt.
Thoughts about history of artzo.
Much of the same really.
Fear of loosing the insight, what if it was just a small glimpse. Or was it an insight.
And that is naturally just more thoughts, buisness as usual.
It feels less serious, more relaxed.

Re: Artzo need guide

Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:57 pm
by artzo
Now Embarresment
Panic
Stories of being a fool.
Intense stuff

Re: Artzo need guide

Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 9:00 pm
by Ilona
Don't worry, it's normal. This will pass. Let it sink in and allow space for whatever comes up. No need to analyse just keep noticing what arises. We'll talk tomorrow.

:) sending love.

Re: Artzo need guide

Posted: Thu May 16, 2013 3:48 pm
by artzo
Life happens.
And in life there is a mind telling lots of stories.
Sometimes there is a feeling of identification with it, other times not.

I don't understand what else can be seen as when looking there is nothing there.

It seems like there is identification with mind or not.
When identification is there, there is a belief in the stories a belief in the story of an I.
When not life just flows without any involvement.

Been more intense stories and more natural being, switching changing between the two.
Pretty nice to let go of the analyzing and just be for a day, not trying to force comming up with the right answer or solution, or getting it or not getting it.

I have felt like the student that must pass the exam otherwise there will be bad things happening, or increasing the story of a person that fails again.

The process in itself created resistance and a sense of writing each days post to get it over with.
Writing you felt as an overhanging threat, a must in the daily schedule that has to be done and dealt with.

I see there is an underlying wish that when seeing no-self, life would become easier, the fear would go away.
Maybe a childish wish. At the same time it all felt so meaningless if nothing change for the better :)
There have been a bit of struggle with this thoughts and feelings.

Also history of Artzo has been visiting.
What is history if there is no Artzo.
How come there is still feeling emerge to memories that speak of past events.
How come there is fear of future if there is no Artzo.

This is what about what has been happening since last time writing.

Re: Artzo need guide

Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:16 pm
by artzo
Today lots of feelings of indentification.
Lots of thoughts about social situations.

Sleep deprivation creates so much irritation and anger.

Re: Artzo need guide

Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 10:20 pm
by Ilona
Artzo, rest for a bit, let whatever comes up be ok. Even anger. It all comes up to be inspected, noticed and released. It's part of process. You may want to let go of whatever resistances are still there, by just noticing them and too letting that be ok.
Take some time off just to rest.

Cool?
Write when ready to continue.


Sending love.

Re: Artzo need guide

Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 10:37 pm
by artzo
Cool :)

Thank you for all kindness and help

Re: Artzo need guide

Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 8:53 am
by artzo
Seems impossible to let go.
When not taking care of baby this is what spinns around in the head.
Like it is of greatest importance to do this.

Investigating and questioning all.

Re: Artzo need guide

Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 6:04 pm
by Ilona
Good. Can you see that it's not up to you, it's just happening.
What are you looking for? What do you expect to happen?

Sending love.

Re: Artzo need guide

Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 5:53 pm
by artzo
It is only happening yes, no controll over the flow of thoughts and feelings.
Some event, thought or feeling trigger an intrest and a jounery into something starts, but how long and far each journey is is not in any control.
Interest can drop from some reason or deepen.

I guess I was looking for that single step making it all clear, a deep recognition of this is it.
It is only old patterns and belief of that instant awakening, boom bang done.

What expectation is there, right now pretty blank.
Expecation are just thoughts about how and what it all is, should be and so on, only mind making stories that has no attachment in reality.
Sometimes thought present expectation as old patterns automatical falling of all at once, fear dissapearing, some sort of feeling of more connection to life, and with some luck a feeling of oneness.

Re: Artzo need guide

Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 7:33 pm
by Ilona
Awakening is a process. And it's not about an event that happened in he past, it's about what is happening now and seeing what is going on now. It can be very gradual or sudden, does not matter. What matters is at you are noticing it now.

Can you say that yes, separate self is an illusion? If not, what is in the way? What else wants to be addressed?