Would love to see that I am not there.

Postby **silentarrow** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:16 pm

There is no sufferer. Only thoughts about it. You will not find the who that is suffering. It does not exist.
There is no suffering if there are no thoughts about it.
And thoughts are happening by themselves. Only the 'human software' has been corrupted, there is an assumption there that there is a 'me' that is suffering. Is there?
Take a look.

no, I cant find the sufferer here.
there's just thoughts.
but no entity who is suffering.

But I will keep looking into this,
so that I can say this with complete certainity
that there is no one here and no one is separate.

Postby **Ilona** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:20 pm

Turn around and face the truth.
There is no you at all.
Seeing happens by itself, same like breathing.
Notice the obvious.

Postby **silentarrow** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:26 pm

Turn around and face the truth.
There is no you at all.
Seeing happens by itself, same like breathing.
Notice the obvious.

hmm, I am kinda getting a sense of what you are trying to say.
and sometimes I do sense that.
I mean sometimes I get a sense that even this seeking and looking are just thoughts arising
and then I go back to identifying with the seeking.
dont know why I am getting trapped in this.

Postby **Ilona** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:50 pm

There no you getting trapped. It's a feeling arising, impersonal feeling + labelling of the mind.

Is there anyone behind the label 'me'?

Postby **silentarrow** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:19 pm

There no you getting trapped. It's a feeling arising, impersonal feeling + labelling of the mind.

Is there anyone behind the label 'me'?

Yeah, I can see that now.
I cant find anyone behind the label me.
And today I noticed something.
The thing which I was calling the sense of me.
It is the body looking through the eyes and then a thought comes
and says. Hey, I am here looking from behind the eyes.

But, it's just the body looking.
so, there' no me needed there.
there's no me inside the face, controlling the body from the inside.
so, what remains now?
there's no me in the legs, there's no me in the hands, torso or even in the face.
so, what's keeping me from seeing there's no me.
but, is there anyone who wants to see the absence of me?
well, i am looking for it now.

Postby **Ilona** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:04 pm

Great! you are looking at it.
but you can not see the absence, it does not work like that.
turn to your left, can you see a batman there? can you see an absence of batman? not look to your right, is there an absence of a unicorn? how about an absence of mickey mouse behind you? see?

how do you know that they are not there? tell me.

Postby **silentarrow** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:10 pm

Great! you are looking at it.
but you can not see the absence, it does not work like that.
turn to your left, can you see a batman there? can you see an absence of batman? not look to your right, is there an absence of a unicorn? how about an absence of mickey mouse behind you? see?

how do you know that they are not there? tell me.

well, I know they are not here, because I dont see them here.
Because they are not here.

Postby **silentarrow** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:04 pm

Okay, I thought a little bit more about it.

And I know that they are not here, because they are not real at all.
They dont exist.

Postby **Ilona** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:31 am

Bingo.

You know how little kids are told stories about Santa, all sweet Christmas magic and then when kid grows up he is told the truth. Santa is not real.
What happens to Santa at this point? Does Santa dissapear, died, gets destroyed, vanished?
What happens to a kid?

How is it relevant to self/ me?

Postby **silentarrow** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:50 pm

Bingo.

You know how little kids are told stories about Santa, all sweet Christmas magic and then when kid grows up he is told the truth. Santa is not real.
What happens to Santa at this point? Does Santa disappear, died, gets destroyed, vanished?
What happens to a kid?

How is it relevant to self/ me?

Well, nothing happens to santa, since Santa didnt even exist.
Nothing happens to the kid either. He just doesnt believe in santa anymore.

So, how is this relevant to self/me?
Well, I would like to say that the self isn't there
but I cant. Because that doesnt appear true for me now.

I mean I feel like I am watching from behind my eyes.
But maybe that's just how its supposed to feel because the eyes are there.

Postby **Ilona** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:29 pm

Eyes are there and you see the world through the yes, it's how it feels. But look what thoughts are coming up- 'I still see through my eyes', but look closely, is there anything that word I points to or is it empty?

What is that 'I' that is seeing?

Postby **silentarrow** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:06 pm

Eyes are there and you see the world through the yes, it's how it feels. But look what thoughts are coming up- 'I still see through my eyes', but look closely, is there anything that word I points to or is it empty?

What is that 'I' that is seeing?

Cant find any I that is seeing.
it's just a thought that says I am seeing.
and now, I feel that this feeling of watching from behind my eyes is also just a feeling.

I really dont know what to do anymore.

Postby **Ilona** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:48 am

You can't find any I, because it does not exist. And there is no you to find anything. There is only finding or not finding, but no you at all.

Now look at what exist. See if life needs a you in order to exist.

Is there a you that needs to do anything? What is the expectation here? Look at it and write with whole honesty.

Postby **silentarrow** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:25 pm

You can't find any I, because it does not exist. And there is no you to find anything. There is only finding or not finding, but no you at all.

Now look at what exist. See if life needs a you in order to exist.

Is there a you that needs to do anything? What is the expectation here? Look at it and write with whole honesty.

Just wanted to let you know that I am looking.
I dont want to give an intellectual answer now,
so I will look some more and then give proper answers.

Postby **Ilona** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:38 pm

Don't hold anything back, honesty is a key and if all this looking and not seeing is making you feel frustrated and angry, then get angry, ask why can't you see it, what is really going on, what is here now. Bring fire into this, get your intention clarified, is it the truth you want? If so then only way to see it is by looking, not by thinking about it.
I say it's enough going in circles. Get serious. And if by now you still can not see that there is no you to see, then perhaps you are looking at a wrong place. Turn to the truth of it- there is no you at all. Is it true? Yes or no??