The Gate

Hi Ray. Just moving slow around the yard. A bit of clean-up from winter. Wild turkeys visit for food in the winter. In the spring their "souvenirs" are everywhere. Raking happens.... at one with clouds.... and souvenirs...in jello. Blessings and gratitude. r

Hi Rob,
Just checking in with you.

Thought I'd mention again that seeing that there is no self does not mean self-ing will never occur again. There will still be thoughts of self and behaviour as if there was a self.
It really is like a child learning that there is no Santa. It doesn't mean that they will never think of Santa again. It just means that when there are thoughts of Santa, they will know that he is not real.

Is there a quest done by anyone here? Is there a prize for anyone? When it is seen that there is no self, it is seen that it is the simplest thing. It has always been this way.
Seeing no self is like looking with your eyes for a cup on an empty table. You look. You see. The table is empty. There is no cup.

Has there been that complete shift with you from "If there is no I..." to "There is no I..."?

Have a review of looking. Actually look and check each of the following,
Is there a self choosing?
Is there a self walking?
Is there a controller of the senses?
Does the self think?
Is there a self being aware?
Is there a self watching? Is there a watcher anywhere?

Or is there only, choosing, walking, sensing, thinking, aware-ing, and witnessing with no self anywhere to be found, no self doing any of it?

Check each of the above. If there are any sticking points I'll help you to examine them more closely.

Warmest regards,
Ray

Hi Ray. Thanks for your post. Is there 100% certainty, and /or settling, and/or "elements of habit and conditioning" ? This seems like the hardest post to write thus far. Is there 100% certainty? No. That question is asked within this mind and is a sign that there's not 100% certainty. Perhaps to list some stuff that's happening can point to where "i" am at.(?) Dreams... It seems that in the dream world, rob is already home. Laughter, confidence to share and explain process, makes such total sense. Upon awakening dream content is lost quickly. Kind of feels like 100% certainty has happened at "dream" level, but hasn't quite yet filtered all the way "here" yet. (?) About sleeping... When the body lays down for sleep, there's this awareness of energy just traveling throughout the body. To sleep takes a long time. It's almost like floating, and resting, and energy, and focused awareness, all together. This has been happening for a few days now. Some stuff that happened/ing..... Thursday was great. That evening went to "holy"(what ever that means) mass at catholic church. Felt like the head was going to actually explode off the top of the body. and such agitation within the body. At one point, there was thoughts in the head like LIES!!!. And had to hold back a huge impulse to scream those words. There was/is some judgments about the corporation known as "vatican". Therefore, not an all- inclusive- warm- fuzzy. The church experience absolutely destroyed any peace within the body. Tried de, looking, etc. Took some time to come to peace again. This experience is mentioned because of "judgements". If judgements are an "i" thing than not at 100% certainty, yet. Clarity..... in the church experience the "i" lies could easily be seen. In fact, "i" stuff is noticed everywhere. On Friday, while sitting in a restaurant, had a profoundly fearful experience. Don't know what triggered it. When "it" settled had a memory of a meditation experience about 25 years ago. i'd only been meditating a short while and had this experience where i may have passed the gateless gate. At work while nailing siding it seemed like rob was only watching a hammer hitting the nail. Also, the same sleeping experiences that are mentioned above were experienced back then. i used to be afraid to sleep at night because it felt like being pulled into a void. That experience had a profoundly negative effect on me and there was no one to talk to about it. It was through TM meditation, and no one could offer any advise, explanation, or help. There seems to be some "settling" and releasing today from that time.However, not without some fear.

It just means that when there are thoughts of Santa, they will know that he is not real.

Yes. "i" thoughts habitually happen. Then its like the thought, "wait a minute who's "i" "

When it is seen that there is no self, it is seen that it is the simplest thing.

The simplest thing is not "here yet"

"If there is no I..." to "There is no I.

There is no "i" seems at about 85%. Breathing for example seems like a rob thing. Of the stuff listed in your post

Is there a self choosing?
Is there a self walking?
Is there a controller of the senses?
Does the self think?
Is there a self being aware?
Is there a self watching? Is there a watcher anywhere

No self. Except those habituated moments that happen occasionally.

If there are any sticking points I'll help you to examine them more closely.

For some reason it feels like "something" has not clicked yet. What? From that meditation experience just mentioned, the watching of the nails being hammered seems not as evident now. Simple.... might not be the word to choose for the process of settling within the body right now, actually seems like there is quite a bit going on. A thought just popped into the head... Ray could ask the question..Could you jump upon the hood of a car and shout with a loud voice unto the crowd "there is no "I" with such conviction and knowing that it didn't matter if the authorities arrested you saying "you are crazy"? There is not that level of certainty. Frustrating because it feels so close. Hope that gives some information for the dp. Thanks Ray.

Hi Rob,

Thanks for your blisteringly honest reply.
Don't think there's much more to do here. Nothing to do and noone to do it! teehee

Ray could ask the question..Could you jump upon the hood of a car and shout with a loud voice unto the crowd "there is no "I" with such conviction and knowing that it didn't matter if the authorities arrested you saying "you are crazy"? There is not that level of certainty.

Well, who would get a buzz out of shouting out in church or making a grand announcement from the hood of a car?

If judgements are an "i" thing than not at 100% certainty, yet.

Is that true? Can an illusory "I" pop up, thoughts and feelings of judgement happen, and then the foolishness of it all is seen. No one here to make judgements.
We're only looking for the idea of a separate self to be seen through 100%.
Games, story of self, foolishness may still go on. Unwinding that stuff will be a work-in-progress.

So, if there is anything more to do, what is the most important question that you could ask yourself at the moment?

best regards,
Ray

Hi Ray. No questions, no comments. Now that is a miracle.Blessings and take care. rob

So. Assuming you can have a choice.
What next?

Happy Easter to you and your family.
Ray

Hi Ray. Well......? don't know. What are the options? A fresh no "i" baby could probably use some pablum and support of no "i" others. If that makes sense? There are other questions, however, this forum might not be the place to discuss them. Ideas around forgiveness, judgement.??. Happy Easter to you and family as well. Blessings. rob

Hi Rob,

If you have clearly seen that there is no separate self then please answer these questions from present moment experience.

How does it feel to see this (that there is no separate self)? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

Describe the difference before seeing, at the moment of seeing, and after seeing? describe the key differences.

in what ways has Seeing changed 'your' life? What impact will this have on your life?

Look forward to your answers.
Love
Ray

Hi Ray. Yesterday my wife and i went Easter visiting. At some point during the conversations, noticed "i know". Some doubt entered the mind as to whether or not the false "i" has been fully exposed. Upon reading the post last night .... some more doubt. Sat with this in de. The mind thought came "i failed". For some reason it seems real hard to look at the false "i" in that statement. It goes way back. Have not felt like giving up this process until today. ?? rob

Hi Rob,

Doubt and uncertainty can be a smoke screen thrown up to distract you. Is this a result of over thinking rather than directly experiencing?
Put the questions I set yesterday on the back burner for now.

Let the constant commentary of the mind quieten down. A walk is a good place to let that happen. Experience what is around you, and what you see.

The illusion of a controller has been seen through. If you drop all pretense of control what is left? Sit with this.

Let me know what comes up.
Ray

Hi Ray.

Doubt and uncertainty can be a smoke screen thrown up to distract you

Yeh, kind of feels like a train derailment.

Is this a result of over thinking rather than directly experiencing?

On Friday in the restaurant, that was profound de of fear. Why did it happen??? Don't know. Even though fear has been seen to basically protect the false "i",when the system known as body freaks out with overload, thinking sometimes happens with de. At least at this stage in the process.

A walk is a good place to let that happen. Experience what is around you, and what you see.

Actually have not walked for about 3 or 4 days. Seems like "something" else needs to be looked at other than trees and nature. That's not criticism. I'll trust your suggestion and go out when it warms a little... to see. What the mind has been chewing on is the concept of guilt. ( failure, guilt seem like a kind of grouping )Which certainly has to be false, just as the "i failure" is false. The mind keeps showing that theme of the "womb" experience. The recent Rob (before LU) would say "i" don't trust that voice, when will "i" remember?, "i" can't trust love, etc. Somehow, little Rob, in frustration, or anger, or whatever has said "i" choose by my intent and words to reject that love AND I'll do life on "my" own. The fall from grace (words in head) sort of happened then. A deeper sense of false separation and beginning for guilt.

If you drop all pretense of control what is left? Sit with this.

Recent Rob before LU wrote lists. My work is Jack-of-all trades construction stuff. Multi- tasking all the time. Lists and more lists. So the idea of control is deeply ingrained. Within the last year or so lists have not been working very well. A phrase that has been in the head is "Rob plans, God laughs". It seems evident that control is...not. Also,that seems to imply that falling away from love, coming to LU, seeing falseness of "i" at LU, anything and/or everything is just... what?... experience. So what's the purpose? Why... ? a great big why?. The only valid purpose for life and even the earth itself, seems to be; a playground to reconnect to that love again. What changes after seeing of the false "i"? Nothing ! and everything ! Nothing because the oil in the truck still needs to changed today in preparation for a trip this week and everything because this is the true beginning of salvation (Christian term) and the ending of the cycles of re-birth. List ; change oil, go for walk, ask Ray for feedback. Thanks. Later. Rob

Hi Rob,

On Friday in the restaurant, that was profound de of fear. Why did it happen??? Don't know. Even though fear has been seen to basically protect the false "i",when the system known as body freaks out with overload, thinking sometimes happens with de.

Fear can be difficult when it is felt strongly. There is always something behind it. Now that you are not so deeply in that fear try reinhabiting it and looking at what it has to tell you. Thinking happens. It's like another radio station: only a problem if it's allowed to strengthen past negative patterns and spill over into life.

Feelings of failure, guilt, anger etc. They are all attachment to the story of your life. Can the story be anything real. The story is only memories, thoughts and reinhabited feelings. Whent these feelings of resistance happen they are always an opportunity to go deeper into seeing, to look again at the absense of self.
"Feeling" of a separate self is NOT the same as a separate self! People experience many feelings that may or may not relate to something Real. When there is a feeling, one need only LOOK again to discover whether the sensation is of something Real.
Bring to mind a a situation where strong resistance is felt, pick whatever pushes your buttons, (what works for me is bad driving by other motorists - curiously it's always them that are in the wrong! LOL). Feel the anger etc., and look directly at it. Accept any emotional bodily feelings "this is what is being felt here and now". Look behind the feelings, look at what owns them.

Thanks for the humour,

"Rob plans, God laughs".

So true, not just for you.
Your questions about love is a good one. Just look at how and if the following have changed, compassion, feeling of connectedness, humour, sympathetic joy.

Hope things are going well

Hi Ray. Thanks for the concern. Things are well, actually.... nothing. Yesterday, had thought "mind CAN'T figure this out. Look! Walking, looking. At home looking, looking.... more looking. What's behind looking? Nothing. What's behind all the "rob" stories? Nothing. Went to the local municipal office in town this morning. Trying to work out a something for a business idea. The idea fell through because of liability reasons. (check out the word liability). Came home sad/mad. Sat in de. What's behind this ? Nothing. Of course, nothing is also everything. Paradox. Total oneness is everything therefore, no- things. Heard a lady talk last night of her passion; Shiatsu massage. Yin/yang. Just another school of thought around polarities.

Just look at how and if the following have changed, compassion, feeling of connectedness, humor, sympathetic joy.

Kind of just mopping around in nothing at present. Compassion, feeling of connectedness, yeh.. somewhat. Forgiveness writing; from the other day, seems only possibly in a "i" system. Humor, sympathetic joy... no. Almost forgot.

Now that you are not so deeply in that fear try reinhabiting it and looking at what it has to tell you.

Fear is pretty much the protection for the false "i". (Except in situations of alert for real potential danger) Somewhere in the long ago past we also talked about habituated responses. Looking in de...more false "i" story...... Thanks Ray. Rob

Hi Rob,

Fear is pretty much the protection for the false "i".

Is there an "I" anywhere?

Keep it simple,
Ray

Hi Ray. No "i" anywhere. Later. Rob