At one with X

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cosmiK
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Re: At one with X

Postby cosmiK » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:59 am

Hey At1,
Yes, there is something more to investigate. How does this fit into the God concept? I am basically a pantheist (incidentally) with some influences beyond pantheism as my first post here alludes to.
"At its most general, pantheism may be understood positively as the view that God is identical with the cosmos, the view that there exists nothing which is outside of God, or else negatively as the rejection of any view that considers God as distinct from the universe."
I have my views on this, and everyone has differing views on this. And this is sort of outside of the scope of this investigation (I think).

My opinion is that there is nothing / God separate from 'this' that-Is... experiencing, Life, here and now. non-duality. One. To me, "God" is a concept that is very very misunderstood and has many other concepts/images attached to it. When clarity dawns from realizing your true nature, then I think that answer will reveal itself :)

I gotta stick to this process for now though, that is all it is for. You can take these ideas up post-Gate in our many forums and I can introduce you to a few people that I think you would love to talk to.

For now...

Have you seen through the illusion of a separate self / controler / doer / agent ?

Are you ready for the FINAL questions?

with Love.

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at1
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Re: At one with X

Postby at1 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:19 am

Have you seen through the illusion of a separate self / controler / doer / agent ?
What I see is that there is something I could be tempted to call "I", "me", "myself" which I would add is some type of agent that makes decisions and has self-awareness. But I see now that all of that labeling is just a mental construct and nothing more.
Are you ready for the FINAL questions?
Absolutely.
Awakening: the sunrise that is also a sunset.

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cosmiK
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Re: At one with X

Postby cosmiK » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:27 am

Hey,

Yes. That habitual labeling will continue to occur, but it will be seen through instantly by just referring to direct experiencing. The strength of it will gradually decrease and fade out.

The "final" questions are to show that you have seen through the illusion. It is reviewed by other guides and you will either be Confirmed, or asked clarification questions. If confirmed, you will have access to our after-care/exploration groups, and have the opportunity to guide others. Sorry if these questions are repetitive, but they are important to encapsulate the expression of your realization so far.

Please answer in detail, each question, honestly and earnestly, and refer to direct experience. If the questions requires analysis and speculation, start with direct experience, here and now first, then let thoughts flow.


1) Is there a 'me' or 'you' or 'I' , at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? Will there ever be?



1.5) When you say "I", what in Experience are you referring to?



2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.



3) How does it FEEL to see this? describe in detail.



4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.



5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?



6) describe the difference before seeing, at the moment of seeing, and after seeing? describe the key difference?



7) in what ways has thing changed your life? what impact will this have on your life?



8) what if i told you LU was a persuasion cult and we have just got you to believe that "there is no self". How would you respond?



9) do you have any comments about my guiding, what you feel was effective, and what was not so effective, and why?

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at1
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Re: At one with X

Postby at1 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:08 pm

1) Is there a 'me' or 'you' or 'I' , at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? Will there ever be?
That which I call "I" is purely a mental fabrication, created with an abstract labeling process which itself is not found in direct experience.


1.5) When you say "I", what in Experience are you referring to?
I'm referring to a particular subset of experience; however, how that subset is defined and what its boundaries are are completely arbitrary. It is in the arbitrariness of where the boundaries of this subset are that make "I" an arbitrarily-defined thing.


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
"I walk in the darkness and stub my toe on the axe that I can't see that's lying on the ground. Within a few moments, there is a lot of pain and I probably swear."

"I sit down to solve a math problem and try to direct my thoughts towards a certain goal."

"I am beginning a chess game with 20 options possible for my opening move and am trying to, as before, direct my thoughts towards a certain goal and make a decision as to how to move."

"I paint on an empty canvas a beautiful portrait of the sky at sunset."

The illusion of separate self begins with how the mind interprets these events, all of which are being experienced yet the experience is not separate from that which has the experience. The isolation and identification of that which I referred to as "I" is something the mind adds to experience, without it actually being a part of experience.


3) How does it FEEL to see this? describe in detail.
It's a lot like letting go of a toy that I thought belonged to me, and growing up from that to the point of not caring about toys one way or another and, moreover, realizing that such toys do not "belong" to anyone. The toy in this case is a metaphor for the totality of all the thoughts and perceptions that I bore witness to. Even this idea of a witness is a mental fabrication. It feels like a maturation process of some kind, though if you asked what is it that is maturing, I would say that it was just a figure of speech that points to a certain subset of experience.
4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
I would say that it is a path towards realizing that the ego is not king, nor servant, for it doesn't exist as a separate entity. Along this path, we see things that might just shake us to our foundation. What we thought of as "me," such as my conception of me which was body+mind+soul, is really an arbitrary identification of a certain subset of experience.


5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?
This really helped nudge me along:
Yes, I know exactly what you mean. This is in line with the same 'control' / 'choice' VS "automatic" issue we were touching on before. It sure seems like "YOU" can think a thought, but as you see "YOU" is just a thought... and thoughts CANNOT think :)

1 thought may go "hmm... i wonder if i can think a thought",
then another will go "I'm going to think of a blue frog",
then another will go "blue frog!",
and then another will go "I just thought of a blue frog... i can think and choose thoughts... at least SOME of them!".

What basically happened here was there was JUST a stream of thoughts - that's it! :) Further on in your inquiry (after the initial Awakening) it will be seen that thoughts are essentially meaningless abstraction, and tell you NOTHING about What-Is.
And, further, I do not own stream of thoughts, nor are they who I am.


6) describe the difference before seeing, at the moment of seeing, and after seeing? describe the key difference?
The attachment to that which I called "me" faded away. For a long time, I hadn't identified "me" as my body; recently, I decided to not identify "me" as whatever goes on in my brain--any more than "I" am what goes on in my beating chest. The sense of self dissolves and the sight of separation changes to seeing no separation.


7) in what ways has thing changed your life? what impact will this have on your life?
It has changed my outlook and world view. Only time will tell what impact this will have on my life.


8) what if i told you LU was a persuasion cult and we have just got you to believe that "there is no self". How would you respond?
I'd probably ask to be taken to your leader, in that hypothetical scenario, just to find out if your statement was in jest.

9) do you have any comments about my guiding, what you feel was effective, and what was not so effective, and why?
I think you did a fine job.
Awakening: the sunrise that is also a sunset.

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cosmiK
Posts: 1013
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:15 pm

Re: At one with X

Postby cosmiK » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:47 am

Thanks for your answers.

It is up for review / clarifications with other guides, and I will be in touch real soon,

enjoy your Absence :)


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