Time to head back home

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Good morning John,

I've had some clarifying thoughts about my life and key events. I can make a lot more sense of me now. Quite a useful Sunday morning lie-in.

This is just a quick post, but I have some topics for further debate, e.g. How an illusion has real effects, how this is all very logical, and how our language hinders critical discussion on these matters. Or does it?
I'll try and put my answers, while posing the questions.
It's funny, I've always hated writing essays but this stuff seems to write itself ;-)

have a pleasant sunny day,
Ray

Yes, beautiful morning here too!

What's behind wanting to discuss more Ray? Do you feel you need some space/time before seeing this fully and completely for yourself and so bring your own answers along with far more questions. ;)

Language is just that, a hindrance, with respect to seeing this. Useful as pointers, soothing as descriptions, but veiling as explanations.

Effects are effects, so everything is life. The illusion is real to. How can something be unreal?

Perhaps it's more accurate to say, X is thought to be Y - so, ah, X is unreal. Well, it's X, just not Y, even though it was thought to be Y.

See how language helps! LOL :)

Have a lovely day sir!
John

[ray]

Hi John,

My 5 year old granddaughter has just gone to make some noise "TO MAKE ME STOP THINKING". She has a point. We are about to go to the zoo.

You have a point to. we can debate things till we run out of words, without getting all the "answers".
What we "believe" has real effects in the world even though beliefs are not real.

The point of this site is that the only way to see is to look.

I see.

Ray.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Hi John,

My 5 year old granddaughter has just gone to make some noise "TO MAKE ME STOP THINKING". She has a point. We are about to go to the zoo.

You have a point to. we can debate things till we run out of words, without getting all the "answers".
What we "believe" has real effects in the world even though beliefs are not real.

The point of this site is that the only way to see is to look.

I see.

Ray.

Yes, you have a wonderful guide there with your granddaughter.

Speak soon,
John

[ray]

Hi John,

Wanting to talk about some ideas was basically an attempt to get the ball rolling again here, but it seems that would just be a diversion from the business of seeing. More thoughts, more stuff to attach to. Maybe interesting, but irrelevant to seeing.

My granddaughter did a good a good job earlier. I'd just started typing and said "I'm trying to think". As mentioned earlier she went to make some noise to stop me thinking. The capital letters just happened, but I left them in :)
She checked back seconds later to see if she was making enough noise ! What a star.

Language is just that, a hindrance, with respect to seeing this. Useful as pointers, soothing as descriptions, but veiling as explanations.

Effects are effects, so everything is life. The illusion is real to. How can something be unreal?

Perhaps it's more accurate to say, X is thought to be Y - so, ah, X is unreal. Well, it's X, just not Y, even though it was thought to be Y.

See how language helps! LOL :)

Yes indeed. Words cannot directly help anyone to see. You can of course point with words. And trying to critically describe it just clouds the issue.
Just over a week ago I saw (that is seeing happened). Since then my old self has popped in and out. There's been a dose of self observation and a review of "my" story as to what made this me what it is. Very interesting. A useful exercise. It has helped to clear up some points, but it isn't seeing. Things are a lot more settled here now.

Today, we all had a lovely day at the farm park. My granddaughter got to take a ferret for a walk on a lead and fed some chickens.

Warmest regards,

Ray.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Just over a week ago I saw (that is seeing happened). Since then my old self has popped in and out. There's been a dose of self observation and a review of "my" story as to what made this me what it is. Very interesting. A useful exercise. It has helped to clear up some points, but it isn't seeing. Things are a lot more settled here now.

Only you can know Ray whether there is still work to be done to clear the decks a little before you go ahead and see again and integrate the seeing.

Everyone is different here and go at their own rate and speed. I was in the fast lane, only 25 years. LOL :)

Let's pretend you are in control of this process Ray...what feels like the next best step?

With warmest wishes,
John

[ray]

Hi John,
As if anyone is ever really in control!
One thing that would clear the decks is to tell my story in a spirit of openness to two important people in my life. Also PM you. Having thought through it, felt and understood, for of and by myself is the real healing here. That's been done.

The next step,
stop trying, stop thinking and stop looking.

With openness and respect,
Ray

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Appreciate the honesty as ever.

No need to stop trying. It's always here and you are a part of that.

Just sit for a moment.

Speak soon,
John

[ray]

Hi John,

Oops I think you got the wrong end of the stick.

What I meant was that trying, thinking and looking are all activities to attach to. In inactivity, silence, quiet and not looking, seeing can occur.

But as you suggest I will sit with it.
Please read the PM I sent which is a retrospective of my life. Looking backwards to move forwards.

Ray

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Hi John,

Oops I think you got the wrong end of the stick.

What I meant was that trying, thinking and looking are all activities to attach to. In inactivity, silence, quiet and not looking, seeing can occur.

But as you suggest I will sit with it.
Please read the PM I sent which is a retrospective of my life. Looking backwards to move forwards.

Ray

Ah, I see. Thank you Ray. Shall do.

With best wishes,
John

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

No PM received recently.

Best,
John

[ray]

Hi John,

Non-doing is fine, but I did need to press the "add recipient" button after typing your name :-)
PM sent

All the best
Ray

[s-p-a-c-e]

LOL :)

[ray]

Hi John,

I spent the afternoon discussing LU with a friend and admiring the autumnal countryside (looking happened)

"So there's no free will then?"
" It's bit like that. You're free to live in the illusion of a separate self"
"Who's the doer then?"
" Difficult to say. It just happens like it always did, but without an I thinking it's in control"

There was also discussion about thoughts that originate as bodily sensations, or due to hormones etc. I just didn't have answers for all that stuff, but pointed out that the only way to see is to look. Our discussion revealed that you can WANT to look, but have to wait for seeing to happen. That part also is not under "my" control.

Speak again soon,

Ray.

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Ray,

Hi John,

I spent the afternoon discussing LU with a friend and admiring the autumnal countryside (looking happened)

"So there's no free will then?"
" It's bit like that. You're free to live in the illusion of a separate self"
"Who's the doer then?"
" Difficult to say. It just happens like it always did, but without an I thinking it's in control"

There was also discussion about thoughts that originate as bodily sensations, or due to hormones etc. I just didn't have answers for all that stuff, but pointed out that the only way to see is to look. Our discussion revealed that you can WANT to look, but have to wait for seeing to happen. That part also is not under "my" control.

Speak again soon,

Ray.

Isn't it funny that the "I" wants to work it all out. :) Like trying to nail a cloud to the ground.

Are the trees out there still?

Best wishes,
John

[ray]

Hi John,
The trees were all busy treeing :)

I feel I'm ready for the questions.

One interesting point today
Q. What happens when you tell people they don't exist?
A. They just don't believe you.

And my favorite Buddhist joke,
Q. Why don't Buddhists hoover into the corners?
A. Because they don't have any attachments.

Warmest regards,
Ray