What am i?

[Idk]

Hi, Rowena

So what is it?
It is something appearing as an experience, so look to body sensations, particularly around the head. If you find something, just notice it for what it is.

So, I’ve been thinking about this and observing it for quite a while, and I’ve found this feeling right around the eyes (as I mentioned before) that gets attributed to identification with the "I”. But in reality, there’s no actual feeling of self there at all, there’s just that feeling which exists, without any feeling of “I”.

Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?

From what I’m seeing right now: no, there is only one “space”, although that word is probably not entirely accurate, in which everything happens, without anyone outside observing it.

Consider any practical issues (such as what is available).
Consider the time factor, i.e. for preparation.
Consider the purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc.

Where in all of the above is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life?

Can you find a someone somewhere? (Not just thoughts, and thoughts about the thoughts (thought bundles), none of which are solid even if they seem to have some solidity for an instant.)

Do you control attention?
Do you control feelings?
Do you control choices?
Do you control thoughts?
Do you control anything?

3. Now consider, can anything be found for which a 'you' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

Wow, I’m definitely going to look into this more, but from what I’ve seen so far, yes, everything I do is the result of what’s around me. In that sense, there’s no one who acts, but the idea of “I” still remains (paradoxical as that sounds). It’s actually a really deep pointer, and it’s true, everything I do is just the result of what happens around me. Just wow. Still, I can’t fully let go of the idea of “I” yet, but this is probably the first really good, even somewhat shocking understanding

[Noro]

Hello Idk,

I am happy to read your last post. There is currently a power cut going on here, so unfortunately a full reply will have to wait until tomorrow.

I like what you said about the idea of “I” still sticking around. How can it not when we use it in our everyday language for communication purposes! The idea of “I” is not a problem, it is a thought about something, so, what is that something….? That’s where the juice is.

The same goes for sensations and feelings that stir up a sense of “I”. Once looked at the sense of “I” is no longer, isn’t that strange?

Both ideas and feelings are appearances, they come and go with everything else. All appearances are perceived, but can “perceived” be found? If everything perceived is a content of thought, what remains when all thoughts are dropped. Look there.

That’s it for now,

Warmly,

Rowena

[Idk]

I hope the power comes back soon! And thank you for helping me on this journey 🙏

[Noro]

Hello Idk,

So, I’ve been thinking about this and observing it for quite a while, and I’ve found this feeling right around the eyes (as I mentioned before) that gets attributed to identification with the "I”. But in reality, there’s no actual feeling of self there at all, there’s just that feeling which exists, without any feeling of “I”.

Yes, once you land fully on the feeling right around the eyes, you see it is only a sensation and a sensation cannot be "I".
But you can look deeper here from the relative perspective. What is that sensation exactly? Perhaps it is a slight movement of contraction which has familiarity to it, like a bit of a habit pathway when mental focusing happens? It is still sensation from the perspective of DE, but there is also a bit more info. being gained from the conventional perspective. Once it has been seen that no actual separate independent "I" or "doer" can be located anywhere other than a thought, then there is no problem using the gift of mental discernment to uncover deeper into these movements. Any slight contraction in the body-mind system can jiggle a response that it belongs to an "I". It is part of the functioning of 'the system.' Keeping us alert to the ever-changing world of appearances and interpreting them when necessary.

If you were standing on a side-walk about to cross a road and saw a car coming fast toward you, you would stay put. At that time the contraction would probably be un-noticable to 'you' because the car took precedence as importance, but the contraction of alert would still have taken place. Developing a curiosity towards subtle movements of contraction in the body is both insightful and enjoyable.

Here are some questions:

How do you relate to 'your' thoughts?
Are they 'your' thoughts?
How do you relate to 'your' emotions?
Are they 'your' emotions?

How has your relationship to other people changed?
How do you react when conflict/problems arise?
What is you relationship to life in general?

Are there doubts? If so, please describe them.
If you are not a separate self, then who/what are you?
When you turn and look for yourself, what do you find?

And the unanswered questions from the previous exercise:

Do you control attention?
Do you control feelings?
Do you control choices?
Do you control thoughts?
Do you control anything?

3. Now consider, can anything be found for which a 'you' is responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

Please take your time with these, I will be a bit tied up over the weekend, and so will probably answer on Monday.

Have a good weekend,

Warmly,

Rowena

[Idk]

Hi, Rowena.

How do you relate to 'your' thoughts?
Are they 'your' thoughts?
How do you relate to 'your' emotions?
Are they 'your' emotions?

It’s quite a tricky questions, because when I look at direct experience, there isn’t anyone that thoughts belong to. There are only thoughts. The same is true for emotions.
But there’s still a long standing association, almost like a habit, that thoughts imply something more than just thoughts, namely a person that they belong to. But at the same time, those very thoughts create that person themselves. Even though this habit is quite strong, when I look at direct experience, there’s an understanding that there isn’t anyone specific that these thoughts belong to, even though, again, the habit of thinking there’s someone still remains.

How has your relationship to other people changed?

I think my relationship with other people has stayed the same. I can’t really point to any major differences. I love some people, I get angry at some people sometimes, I avoid some people, and so on. I think that’s how it is.

How do you react when conflict/problems arise?

I don’t get into conflicts very often, but to answer honestly, it depends on the conflict itself. If the conflict is baseless, I get angry. Or if the conflict is based on a misunderstanding, I try to resolve it.

What is you relationship to life in general?

I wouldn’t say that I’m 100% satisfied with my life, but I enjoy living and developing in the areas that interest me. There’s quite a lot of stress, mostly because of my studies, but overall, everything else is fine.

If you are not a separate self, then who/ what are you?

It’s both an easy and a difficult question. If I look directly, at direct experience, it becomes obvious that if I’m not a separate self, then I’m basically nobody. There are thoughts, there are emotions, the body is there, consciousness is there too, but there’s no personality in any of that. At the same time, after a while, once I get distracted by my daily activities, that personality appears again. In other words, the experience of direct experience is forgotten after a short time. But that’s just my observation. So, to answer briefly, if I’m not a separate self, then I’m nobody.

When you turn and look for yourself, what do you find?

I find a feeling around the area of my eyes, and I also find thoughts.

Do you control attention?
Do you control feelings?
Do you control choices?
Do you control thoughts?
Do you control anything?

No, I absolutely don’t control them.

Now consider, can anything be found for which a 'you' is responsible - if so responsible to what and for what?

No, because those are just thoughts about responsibility and about someone who would be responsible

[Noro]

Hello Idk,

How do you relate to 'your' thoughts?
Are they 'your' thoughts?
How do you relate to 'your' emotions?
Are they 'your' emotions?

It’s quite a tricky questions, because when I look at direct experience, there isn’t anyone that thoughts belong to. There are only thoughts. The same is true for emotions.
But there’s still a long standing association, almost like a habit, that thoughts imply something more than just thoughts, namely a person that they belong to. But at the same time, those very thoughts create that person themselves. Even though this habit is quite strong, when I look at direct experience, there’s an understanding that there isn’t anyone specific that these thoughts belong to, even though, again, the habit of thinking there’s someone still remains.

YES! Good work here; and, at the same time some points to look at with a finer lens for clarity.

But there’s still a long standing association, almost like a habit, that thoughts imply something more than just thoughts, namely a person that they belong to.

Where does the information come from, in your direct experience, that there is a "long standing association"?
Can such a thing called 'habit' be found in direct experience?
Please look really carefully here at all the sense fields:
Can habit be found in any sense field other than thinking?
Maybe you are going to say "no...but..... duh....everyone knows what habit refers to.
But what does 'habit' point to in direct experience other than content of thought?

Even though this habit is quite strong, when I look at direct experience, there’s an understanding that there isn’t anyone specific that these thoughts belong to, even though, again, the habit of thinking there’s someone still remains.

You say when you look at direct experience:
Is there a 'you' to be found 'looking at' direct experience?
Where does the apparent 'you' end and the seeing begin?
Is there a division to be found between the seer and the seen?

When you say there is an "understanding that there isn't anyone specific that these thought belong to....".
An understanding implies that there is some kind of rational conclusion that's been arrived at after the direct experience. It is an overlay of thought.
In your direct experience, can anyone specific be found? Can a thinker of thoughts be found? Can thoughts belong to a separate 'someone'? And if so, where is that someone to be found?
Please find a 'someone'' or a 'something' that can be found divided from direct experience.

Direct experience requires a "Yes" or a "No" answer; nothing else will do. No arguments, justifications, explanations will be considered.

How has your relationship to other people changed?

I think my relationship with other people has stayed the same. I can’t really point to any major differences. I love some people, I get angry at some people sometimes, I avoid some people, and so on. I think that’s how it is.

The "I" thought is very active here, and your answer is coming through the lens of thought. And this is fine, it gives us a good direction for further exploration.

How has your relationship to other people changed?

I think my relationship with other people has stayed the same. I can’t really point to any major differences. I love some people, I get angry at some people sometimes, I avoid some people, and so on. I think that’s how it is.

Ditto, as above.

If you are not a separate self, then who/ what are you?

It’s both an easy and a difficult question. If I look directly, at direct experience, it becomes obvious that if I’m not a separate self, then I’m basically nobody. There are thoughts, there are emotions, the body is there, consciousness is there too, but there’s no personality in any of that. At the same time, after a while, once I get distracted by my daily activities, that personality appears again. In other words, the experience of direct experience is forgotten after a short time. But that’s just my observation. So, to answer briefly, if I’m not a separate self, then I’m nobody.

Good conclusion. Let's try to explore a little bit more.

if I’m not a separate self, then I’m nobody.

There is a jumping from identification with one ship 'separate self' to another ship 'nobody.'
When you look to find 'nobody' in your direct experience, what do you find?
Please look for something/anything that can be found separate from or divided from direct experience?

Spoiler alert: if you can find nothing, then look closely at that too! Look around you in the visual field, sound field, field of thought, etc. to see if you can find anything at all that can be separated out from experiencing.

Go gently, this doesn't work well if you try too hard. It is NOT a problem that the mind can solve.


Warmly,

Rowena