I would like to engage with a guide again

[Noro]

BUTTCHAIR BOUNDARY

1. Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.

Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the Sensation with no clear division?

It is simple direct & nonverbal. Just be with the sensations.

Sink into that noticing. Notice how it FEELS.

NOW

2. Please do the same exercise with your feet.

Feel your feet touching the floor; and it doesn't matter if you are wearing shoes or not.

Is there any clear dividing line between where your feet end and the floor even if there are socks and shoes between?

Again, simple, direct and nonverbal. Just be with the sensations.

NOW

3. Place your right hand, palm down, on your right thigh. (You can use the left side if you prefer.)

Feel your hand and your thigh together at the same time.

Is there any clear dividing line between your hand and your thigh.

Again, simple, direct and nonverbal.

What do you find?

[LesleyBitzy]

1. Please LOOK for any place where your butt ends & the chair begins.
Is there any clear dividing line between them? Or only the Sensation with no clear division?

There is no clear dividing line. There is only the sensation with no clear division.

Feel your feet touching the floor; and it doesn't matter if you are wearing shoes or not.
Is there any clear dividing line between where your feet end and the floor even if there are socks and shoes between?

No clear dividing line.

3. Place your right hand, palm down, on your right thigh. (You can use the left side if you prefer.)
Feel your hand and your thigh together at the same time.
Is there any clear dividing line between your hand and your thigh.

There is no clear dividing line between them.

What do you find?

I find that sensation is just sensation, regardless of of the objects .

[Noro]

Good going Lesley!

PALM FLIPPING EXERCISE

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk!

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and EACH TIME inquire:

- How is the movement controlled?

- Does a thought control it?

- Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

- How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when it seemed like a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

- Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual "I" or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Can a thought initiate anything or is that just another thought story, an overlay to what is actually happening?


PS: This weekend I have guests staying and so will be tied up during the day, but will answer any reply in the evening, I am in Belgium, so just an hour ahead of you!

[LesleyBitzy]

PALM FLIPPING EXERCISE

- How is the movement controlled?

The hand controls the movement.

- Does a thought control it?

No thought controls it.

- Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

There is no controller located.

- How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

There is no decision made.

Track any decision point when it seemed like a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

- Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Nothing chose either the left or the right hand.

Can you find a separate individual "I" or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

I can't find a separate individual who chooses when to turn the palm up or down.

Can a thought initiate anything or is that just another thought story, an overlay to what is actually happening?

A thought is just another story, an overlay to what is actually happening.

[Noro]

Hi Lesley,

Just a couple of 'looking' refinements on the last exercise, perhaps the wording could have been a little better, but I think it is always helpful to look again for clarity. There is no right or wrong:

- How is the movement controlled?
The hand controls the movement.

Is this a fact? Can a hand, by itself control movement?
Is it an independent entity that has control?
Can a separate controller of movement be found?

- How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

There is no decision made.

If no decision is made, how does the turning the hand over happen?
(PS It is also okay not to know how it happens.)

Next exercise to follow.

[Noro]

DRINKS EXERCISE

The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.

Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:

1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.

2. Count to 5.

3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:

Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves?
If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event?
Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’?
Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’?
Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’, but the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?

[LesleyBitzy]

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves?
The qualities sort of appeared by themselves.

If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

They just popped up.

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event?

No.

Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

No

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’?

No

Have you seen this function in action?

I think this function happens throughout my day in all normal circumstances.Like deciding what to cook for dinner.

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’?

No

Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Nothing arose.

Can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?

A feeling cannot choose. It is not in the nature of a feeling to choose.

[Noro]

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’?
No

Have you seen this function in action?

I think this function happens throughout my day in all normal circumstances.Like deciding what to cook for dinner.

1. Can a mental function - i.e. a thought "choose," "decide" or "intend?"

2. Even if you have a thought about "deciding", is there an actual mental function that is in charge of producing such a thought at a precise moment?

3. Did "you" plan to have that particular thought at that precise moment?

How often during the day do you have thoughts about doing something and then end up doing nothing about it?
For instance, you wake up in the morning, you are lying in bed and there is a thought that says "I should get up."

4. Are actions always taken right away on that thought, or do you sometimes drift off again, or wait a few minutes longer?
5. Can a thought decide?
6. Is there an separate independent thinker of thoughts (mental function)?
7. And if there is, where is it located?

Referring back to the PALM FLIPPING EXERCISE, I have a question for clarification:

- How is the movement controlled?

"The hand controls the movement."

Is this a fact? Can a hand, by itself control movement?
Is it an independent entity that has control?
Can a separate controller of movement be found?

Can you find a separate individual "I" or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

"I can't find a separate individual who chooses when to turn the palm up or down."

YES!

And also your final answer I think is relevant to the above enquiry.

-

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

" There is no decision made."

The question here was asking "How is the decision made to turn the hand over", and to say there was "no decision" is not incorrect, but it is a bit ambiguous because it is not answering the question "how?" Actually, I think that this is rather a misleading question, but having said that, misleading questions can be useful for pointing out that sometimes it is perfectly reasonable to throw the hands up in the air and say "I haven't a clue!" Especially to the question "How!"
Following the conclusion of your answer in red above, if there is no separate individual who "chooses" then there is obviously no separate individual who "decides" either, and yet, "apparent choices" do get made as do "apparent decisions" but "how" these happen is a mystery! So I wanted to bring this to your attention. I hope this is helpful.

[LesleyBitzy]

1. Can a mental function - i.e. a thought "choose," "decide" or "intend?"

No they are just thoughts.

2. Even if you have a thought about "deciding", is there an actual mental function that is in charge of producing such a thought at a precise moment?

No.

3. Did "you" plan to have that particular thought at that precise moment?

No.

4. Are actions always taken right away on that thought, or do you sometimes drift off again, or wait a few minutes longer?

No often drift off.

5. Can a thought decide?[/quote
No. It thinks it can!
]

6. Is there a separate independent thinker of thoughts (mental function)?

No.

7. And if there is, where is it located?

It's nowhere.

Referring back to the PALM FLIPPING EXERCISE, I have a question for clarification:

- How is the movement controlled?
"The hand controls the movement."

Is this a fact? Can a hand, by itself control movement?

No.

Is it an independent entity that has control?

There is no independent entity.

Can a separate controller of movement be found?

No.

I have no clue how movement happens or how it is controlled. It is indeed a mystery. In fact I don't understand most of what goes on.

[Noro]

I was on my laptop the moment your answer came through, and so replying is happening quickly even though I was having thoughts about getting some lunch since it is after 1pm here! :)

"I have no clue how movement happens or how it is controlled. It is indeed a mystery. In fact I don't understand most of what goes on."

I love this answer.....

How does it feel when you say "I have no clue!"
Against:
How does it feel when the mind or thoughts are trying to find a logical answer?


This is a good exercise to revisit, even if it has been done before:
HOW TO DISTINGUISH TRUTH FROM A LIE

We often lie every day & don't realize it.
For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, say, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it doesn't matter how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional as it is always recalled by thoughts and mental images, as we recall the memory of a lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This lie will immediately bring up sensations in the body that accompany the verbal or visual memory of the lie.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie, and this is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."
How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.
It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.
I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.
Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

Please report back with what body sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not a sensation itself, for example.
So if you feel "peaceful" LOOK AGAIN......How does it feel to feel "peaceful"?

Do you see that?
Do you see the difference between Actual Sensation & the thought interpretation of Sensation?


Lies appear as feelings of contraction in the body, tense, tight & heavy
Truth appears as body sensations of expansion, sudden relaxation, loose, light and freeing..
Most people can find this in their gut or heart.

[LesleyBitzy]

How does it feel when you say "I have no clue!"

It feels free, easy and light.

How does it feel when the mind or thoughts are trying to find a logical answer?

My brow feels heavy and constricted. My chest feels tight.

I had difficulty finding a time when I lied to someone I love and so I made one up to test with.

I told my partner I wanted him to move out and leave me alone.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.
What is found?

When I scanned my body I noticed my chest felt tight and constricted. My solar plexus felt as if it was also tight and constricted. My lower gut had an aching feeling.

How does it feel to feel "peaceful"?
Do you see that?

Yes.

Do you see the difference between Actual Sensation & the thought interpretation of Sensation?

I do see the difference.

[Noro]

INTRODUCTORY BODY EXERCISE

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes. Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?

Does the body have a weight or volume?

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Can a boundary be detected between the body and the clothing?

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?

If there is an inside - an inside of what exactly?

If there is an outside - an outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ actually refer to?

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

[LesleyBitzy]

Hello Rowena.
I just wanted to let you know that I have had some health and legal issues over the last couple of days which is why I haven't posted. I have started the exercise but need to give it more time which I should have this weekend.
Didn't want you to think I had stopped.
Thank you so far.

Lesley

[Noro]

Hello Lesley,

Thanks for letting me know. I hope everything gets sorted out.
Take your time with the exercise.

Warmly,
Rowena

[LesleyBitzy]

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No.

Does the body have a weight or volume?

It doesn't.

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

It doesn't.

Can a boundary be detected between the body and the clothing?

No.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

No.

Is there an inside or an outside?

No.

If there is an inside - an inside of what exactly?

There is no inside.

If there is an outside - an outside of what exactly?

There is no outside.

What does the word/label ‘body’ actually refer to?

It refers to a concept. It refers to a belief that it exists.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

The Actual experience of the body is just a 'mass' of sensations.