Mind that loves to philosophize and grab on to concepts and experiences

[ajef]

Hi Stacy. Hmmm.

What is found?

I am not sure if these sensations I was referring to in the last post is the same as the lying feeling.

For instance, if I think about I like to eat worms, its more of a sinking feeling. The pressure I described in the chest and head is still there, even if I think I love pizza. Its more like a dense energy, very visceral and moving. I can't seem to find the lie. Also, today during the mediations, its been more pressure/denstiy in the head, not as much in the chest.

My experience with the chest pressure is that its usually some energy work or old emotions coming up. Many times sitting with it will lead to crying, anger or confusion, or some other release.
I'm open to that it might be because of lies, but I'm confused because especially in the mediations I don't really think so much yet the density sensations are still there. Maybe it is unconscious lie beliefs?

With love,
Anna

[Anastacia42]

"If it hurts, you're lying." Byron Katie

Sure, there's some variation, but anything other than expansive lightness, the truth feeling, indicates a lie. This includes sinking. pressure & density.

Just stay aware of the Sensations as we go along & report what's found.

Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’. But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are inherent characteristics of ‘things’. But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Let me know what is SEEN.

Loving

[ajef]

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

Red colour

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

Red colour is experienced.

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Label suggest something else.

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

Green is an overlay.

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

No.

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

The labels have no effect.

I just want to add that I don't label the feelings of pressure as good or bad. It doesn't make sense to me to call it lie or truth. I think I get your point that "heavy" feelings are "lie based" but I can't seem to find a direct lie. Yesterday I cried, I think its old emotions coming up, I don't think its "bad". Today the body feels more loose, there are some small pressure points in lower chest, some stiffness in neck, and otherwise pretty loose feeling throughout the body.

Have a lovely day.
Love,
Anna

[Anastacia42]

Good morning,

Your answers are good.

It doesn't make sense to me to call it lie or truth. I think I get your point that "heavy" feelings are "lie based" but I can't seem to find a direct lie.

Well, it doesn't have to make sense . Just stay aware of sensation and see what you notice. Yes sometimes emotions come up when we think we're losing something like a sense of self. I'm glad the body feels looser today.

Try this pointer next.

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Loving

[ajef]

Hi. Thanks for a great exercise.

How is the movement controlled?

I really don't know.

Does a thought control it?

There are thoughts that thinks it can control it + thoughts saying the thought IS the controller. But there can also be the thought "do it now" and then no flipping happens. So it doesn't seem to be controlled by thoughts.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

I can't find any location.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

I don't know. There seems to be a thought about it. But how the decition is actually made, I can't figure it out.

Who or what ​ chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

I don't know. Seem to be chosen by automatic programming/habit.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No.

With love,
Anna

[Anastacia42]

Good morning

You're right. There's no controller. How anything works is a mystery we cannot solve.

Are you still looking at ButtChair? That one really helps.

Here is a set of recorded pointers. Try these. Be sure to listen to the Introduction.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ksba3zhi9uuz ... hsk1a?dl=0

Check in here after each one

Loving

[ajef]

Are you still looking at ButtChair?

Yes, I'm still looking for it. There is pressure, and there is a very strong assumption that the pressure is where the butt ends end chair begins. The sensation of pressure seems to be the boundry, and I can't seem to shake off this belief.
I also learned that I have aphantasia, so I don't see pictures in my head (was laughing so much, I seriously thought all my life that people are metaphorically speaking when they say "see things"). But I have very strong body sensations that creates the separation between body and the rest of the room.

Code: Select all

Here is a set of recorded pointers. Try these. Be sure to listen to the Introduction.

These mediations are great. I will listen to the 7nd one today. I notice there is slightly more pressure and density in chest. I would not describe it as painful or emotional, more like an internal massage that is stronger in the chest. Like energy waves moving. Also some twitching in the legs and thights.

With love,
Anna

[Anastacia42]

Very good. Anna.

pressure and density in chest

Yes. That is still the lie feeling.

Did you do this one?


Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving

[ajef]

Yes. That is still the lie feeling.

Okay. I can't find a lie but I hear you. Confusing myself with this.

Did you do this one?

Yes I did this one.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

I dont know.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

only color and a thought about apple.

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

No. But this is where I feel confused. Because I understand conceptually that apple is just a label, something that was once learned. But it feels impossible to look at the apple and not "see" an apple. Its like the thought + belief in it is so strong that it appears fully as an apple. And the same happens when I do the butt chair exercise only its in the felt sense, not visual. Is this suppose to change? How do you experience this?


Oh, and the meditation sensation rapport:
its getting harder to actually describe the sensations/experience now. Its always changing and morphing. This evening there was some heat waves, also some brief coolness, some pressure fast moving energy (pleasure), tingling in the head and chest, and also the pressure and density in chest/heart area still very prominent. Body was throwing up, burning sensation in throat. Described like this it might come off as heavy, but it is mostly experienced as pleasurable and relaxing (all labels).

With love,
Anna

[Anastacia42]

Hi Anna,

it feels impossible to look at the apple and not "see" an apple. Its like the thought + belief in it is so strong that it appears fully as an apple. And the same happens when I do the butt chair exercise only its in the felt sense, not visual.

Is this suppose to change? How do you experience this?

Those mistaken identiies are exactly like the mistake of believing there's a "self." That's why we practice them.

Yes. It will change. We can't make it happen but it will. We are watching for a shift in perception.

I experience it as, well, kind of amusing, not real..

It's like learning that Santa Claus is a man in a suit. If he's wearing the suit. I see that, but I have never believed it after I knew better.

or this:

https://youtu.be/uAXtO5dMqEI

Does that help?

Which recorded pointer are you on now?

Loving,

[ajef]

Thank you.

Does that help?

It is helpful to know that the thing will still appear to be there. I think the mind expects it to dissapear, change form, or look different, imagining things it cannot know lol. But yes your experience and videoes helps.

Which recorded pointer are you on now?

I've listened halfway through the 7th.

Also practising the other ones whenever I can. I like the one with "this is how God appears in this moment". Also sometimes practising recieving (find that one a bit more difficult), and seeing where thoughts arrise from.

With love,
Anna

[Anastacia42]

That's great. Seeing is likely to happen when you're not looking just because you've set up the circumstances.

Have you read gateless gate crashers? Or attended any groups?

While comparison is not useful, It can help a little bit to know what you're looking for.

Loving,

[ajef]

Have you read gateless gate crashers?

Yes I have read all the stories there.

Or attended any groups?

Nope, no groups. Open to trying this next.I did try one 1-1 session with a non-duality teacher and asked some questions on retreat, but no group sessions.

Thanks for your questions and pointings, really appreaciate it.

Love,
Anna

[Anastacia42]

One model for looking at this is called Ten Fetters. At LU we only cover the first 3. There are groups outside of LU. some led by LU guides. that take it further.

Here is a list of the Fetters;:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)

and some resources:

Christiana Michelberger

https://findingawakening.com/about/

Vince Shubert

Weekly Free Meetup Times (Sydney, Australia time):
Saturday 9 pm,
Monday 6 am (for paid subscribers - recording only available to attendees)
Wednesday 4 pm (recorded and published on YouTube)
Friday 7 am (recording only available to attendees)
📍Check your local time: www.worldtimebuddy.com
⏱ Countdown timer for the next meeting on: www.wakingupwithvince.com (scroll down)

🧭 It’s always the same Zoom link; you can arrive late or leave early.

Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035

Vince also has a YouTube Channel


Todd & Pernille Lent Damore

Yes, we still have a monthly Inquiry Group that's free, and that they are welcome to join.

We also have our Discord community which is free too.

Write to:

unfetteredmindfulness@gmail.com

Loving,

[ajef]

Thank you so much Stacy. I have been watching Pernille and Todd on Youtube. Will look into participating in the groups.
Should I keep posting the body sensations here, or move on to the groups? What do you think?

With love,
Anna