Yes the assumed real self would not. The question is if it exists at all. So far we agree you are not finding it at all, if I am not wrong.
So …. My usual state is overthinky, possibly a bit wired (better now though than have ever been due to this work). But.. since doing direct experience I recognise a place I go to where everything is crisp, bright, trees are bright. Calm, open etc is this it? I can go there when I focus on it. Not sure if this is the real self.
This is a sign "you" (attention, really) is concentrated on sensations. That is a good "skill", a "wholesome state". Mind you not "your skill" and not "your state", just the way things unfold in that moment.
Is it clear that it is not your skill and not your attention, but just skill and attention?
I.e. is concentration "you" or "yours" to whatever degree it is there?
Is attention "you" or "yours" whereever it is?
And no, this is not "your real self", do you notice this idea implies a belief that there is a "your real self". Can you see that is just an unfounded belief? Just thought habit trying latch on to something that feels precious and pleasant and define it as "you" in the fantasy of making it permanent. Which it is NOT, like all states it comes and goes.
This inquiry does not lead to permanently concentrated, pleasant, attentive, balanced states! The reality of no controller no self is equally present in destracted, negative and confused states. In one sense maybe even more obviously so. Who would chose them???
Is it REALLY true that there is absolutely no self, that what I take to be self is always only a thought, a belief, never something reall!
You get the difference?
Absolutely! I have been treating it like a project to do. I take notes, listen to videos etc. what is funny is that the night before last in bed I had it (if that is it?!) again! I could absolutely NOT find a separate self and laughted at how easy it was to see this. I pictured a mini me doing the dishes and chores and thought how ridiculous it was that I couldn’t see it before. I thought it funny that I had wiggled toes saying ‘they don’t seem like me’. And the ‘looking for a unicorn’ (why would you?!) now made sense! However, in the morning it was gone again.
Yes this is seeing. What happens in the morning is that whatever thoughts and sensations come, are believed to mean "losing it". No. Again: This is not about not having a sense of self, or not experiencing running thoughts out of control and unpleasant sensations. Just aknowledge that the truth of no controller no self is equally in the state you call "I lose it" (no "you" don't lose it, just a different weather pattern is moving through).
I believe there is no self and am more relaxed, confident in having less control, letting life flow - however not fully sinking in :(
Again, lovely the nice states. And the same misunderstanding about this meaning some kind of permanent pleasant and balanced state.
And see that whatever reactions come, thoughts, feelings and so forth, or silence, all are more clear examples of spontaneous experience unfolding without self, all are showing no self, nothing is showing self.
Is that absolutely clear?
I have focused on the ‘is it really true, no me’ statement and honestly believe it … but am not ‘living it’. This is frustrating .
You can not live it. You is just a thought. At the same time, none of these experiences you describe mean it is not happening, by itself, which it is, which you will see EVERY TIME you attend to what actually is happening, instead of to your attachment fantasy of how this is supposed to feel (yes, can be bitter to let go of). "Your" sticking point is the belief in and clinging to fantasies of a more elevated life. It's not that things cannot improve on the conventional level. For example Liam right now is at a retreat, probably naturally more concentration is being developed. This however is a separate matter, it belongs in the category of relative improvements in normal life. All of which also happen without a self (clear?).
SO if everything that is seemingly self, in fact as you see and say, is spontaneous without choice, without you, without control, then what is there to maintain the belief of self upon?
Nothing! Can see this. Like doing chores etc, all flowing. Body functions, flowing.
Clear.
Is it completely clear to you that you have absolutely no control over thought, that thought in no way is you, but a process happening like the weather?
Yes. However, still get taken along with it as I don’t remember to observe it always. (Overall feel more relaxed - definitely).
Again again, stuck in fantasies of permanent special states, permanent special "Self".
"I" dont observe it most of the time either. Life just happens. And I can feel the difference between conventionally speaking intentional action (like writing you) or tripping over a door. And "I" feel intentional when I am. And "I" feel lost in thoughts when lost in thoughts. It's just that it doesn't change the clarity WHEN ATTENDING, that none of it truely comes from a separate self. I don't need to think about and be aware of that 2+2=4 all the time, to have clear "realization" that 2+2=4. The vast majority of the time it is not something I am aware of.
Right now "I" am focused on answering you. It just feels like thinking and writing. And "I" have a clear sense of self, who "Elad" is conventionally speaking. If that was gone I would not function in normal life. And it is clear this sense of self is not refering to some real self, but rather refers to mysterious emergent experience.
It is easy to see that there is no separation, inside/outside, subjective/objective in direct experience. And for lots of life that is not being attended to. Just normal life, including bothersome thought patterns some of the time, are being attended to. This process does not suddenly change all of our psychology, all the things that need to be matured or seen through or loved wisely, on the conventional level.
If yes, let it sink in all the way, let it be felt this includes your most precious thoughts and memories... How does it feel?
Felt a bit ‘twitchy’ as wasn’t sure if the memories would go etc then realise I would prefer to know and live the truth.
That's great. Do this one more, stay with the twitchiness without trying to change it, let what is felt be felt. And also see it refers to no-one separate.
Thank you once again so so much for walking with me 🥺🙏🏼
Lots of love,
Nic xx
A pleasure. "You" are really close now. Actually "you" just need to aknowledge what is already seen, and let go of attachment to some fantasies of wonderful ever after, which might include feeling some grief. Look deeply at everything in this message. Then write.
