The Gate

It is impossible. There is no step from intellectual understanding to seeing, meaning it doesn’t come from the intellect.
It is just… seen.

So the story is it is something that is figure out-able by the one who is really great at figuring out things. ;)
What is lost if that identity was an illusion all along?

Be ruthless. Look at the desire itself.
Not the story around it, not the content, just the feeling of desire.
Where is it?
What is it, actually?
Can you find any substance to it, or is it just another sensation, another thought, another wave in experience?

Sit right here in the “stuckness,” in the “I can’t see it.”
Is there a “you” there, or just the story of a you?

The desire is a desire for something to change. It's a sensation + thought, it's a sensation in the body, solar-plexus/chest, one of wanting to expand. The tought is: "something should change". I am expecting "something to happen", something to shift, something significant, something proving to me that "Ah, I see it now."

Sitting in the stuckness, there is a "me", and a story of me, they are one and the same. But the story is alive, it seems, because I am that story, and I am life, or something like this ...

I have two conflicting impulses, one saying "maybe you already got it", then it's a disappointment because there was no shift, and I am still not at peace, everything is exactly the same as it has always been. The other impulse saying I still have much "work to do" before this would even be possible. Any "seeing" I have done, is just me imagining or telling myself because I have read or heard what other people say that they see ... And I really have no clue where I am between these "stories" (again). Problem is that I have expectations.

Start from the beginning and read back slowly through this entire conversation. From the very first post.

Not to figure anything out, just to see what is here. Sit with anything, a question, a phrase, that is felt somewhere deep in the body. Take your time.

What emerges? What is present?

Going through it all, there is nothing specific that gets caught in the body.

Only the same overall "confusion" on where I am at right now, and doubt, have I really seen though anything or not. More stories pop up: Have I been truly genuin in my reports or have I imagined that I experience things a certain way just because I really want to, or because "I am suppose to". I can see this same doubt running through all of the conversation as well, doubt that I am confusing intellectual understanding for experience etc.

I noted that I have no fear now, as I did, but I am not sure if it is because I am further away from seing through the illusion and the "me" feels safer, or if it is because I have "overcome" the fear for the moment.

Going into the present, I still feel like a "me" exist, I still feel like a "me" looking out on the world out there etc. When intentionally focusing on a certain things, an image or a sound, I can also "in parallel" see that it is nothing but the seen, only the heard is heard etc, but I still think I am there at the same time. To be honest, I don't really know what I really experience.

Not knowing, confusion, doubt—these are not obstacles. They are the direct experience that shows you: there is nothing for a “me” to grasp.

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there. You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken. This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different.

This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end…
Expectations are impossible not to have but you see they too are stories. Not real.


All of what is being described in your last two posts is just experience… waves of sensation and thought, each convincing, each hollow when actually seen.

The only “self” you can find is the story about self, and the habit of expecting something to change. When these stories are absent (as when you’re deeply absorbed in activity, or even in boredom), there is no self to be found.

You are not missing anything except the belief that something is missing. The “self” is nothing but this play of story and sensation.

To be honest, I don't really know what I really experience.

Great! Brilliant!

So, what is here? What is ACTUALLY here? Look around…

Actually here, right now, sound, image, sensations, and thought, lots of thoughts: conflicting stories and imaginations giving me the "feeling" of a body. The body is "still there", I can understand it's just a variety of sensations, but the overlay of body is also there all the time. The stories, one saying you already got it, it was nothing else but this, but then nothing at all is different from before, and where is the peace etc. Other story saying you have not been totally honest in your reporting, you have tricked both yourself and your guide, you don't only find sound, image and sensations, you also find a self and a body there, and you have imagined not finding it. I find myself "trying" to "induce" a deeper feeling of "no self", I still have a deep desire for this. So, I am confused about where I am at, at square zero or on the edge but not really being able to step over it.

I can understand, perhaps I just need to relax, let go of stories and expectations, etc, but how to do this I have no idea.

Look closer, with zero effort:
Is there anything you need to do to let go of stories?
Or do stories simply arise, all by themselves?
Does “trying to let go” do anything but add more tension and more story?

Doubt is caused by an underlying belief that is identified with.

We know what it is for a thought to arise. But what is it to believe a thought? What's going on there?

Normally speaking, belief is an attitude we have towards a thought, statement or proposition. It's not the thought itself, but something we think or feel about it. Schematically, it's like this:

1 (Thought "A") "There will be peace in awakening."

2 (Thought "B") "I feel strongly that A is true."
In this case, the belief about thought "A" is actually thought "B."
This is ironic! When we believe a thought, it's just another thought, with maybe a touch of hope or fear (feelings) that it is true. Of course, the "believing" thought could take a different form. Instead of the mere statement that "I think A is true," the believing thought could be one or more other thoughts:

3 (Thought "C") "'When someone agrees with 'A', I feel a warm sense of pleasure."

4 (Thought "D") "When someone disagrees with 'A', I get hurt, angry or confused."

5 (Thought "E") ""Because of 'C' and 'D', I realize that I must really believe that "A" is true."

All of these are separate thoughts. Even the feelings and reactions mentioned in "C" and "D" are nothing more than other mental objects, other "thoughts" in a wider sense.
So the beliefs about thoughts are merely thoughts. They aren't really different from the thoughts themselves. It turns out that the believing thought and the believed thought are never present at the same time. They are separate and independent from each other. So belief is a claim never borne out by direct experience.

So this is where no-you thinks it is. :)
There is nothing wrong with it, and I am here for the duration.

So let’s go back now and with 100% honesty:

Here is a thought exercise. Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organized sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

I can understand, perhaps I just need to relax, let go of stories and expectations, etc, but how to do this I have no idea.

By sitting with the body, feeling the sensations that are present, noticing what is present in direct experience: seeing, tasting, smelling etc. This is the freedom you are overlooking: Nothing to fix, nothing to change, nothing to finish. Just all happening.

Much love,
Becca

Ok, doing the exercise. Thought arise by themselves, this is for sure, and I couldn't have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment. I can't predict my next thought, unless the thought is something like this, now I am going to think the next thought that comes for multiple times. I can not really choose to have only negative or pleasant thoughts, but it feels possible to "tilt" the bias towards one or the other for a shorter period at least. But it is not possible to prevent a thought from appearing.

I guess, my experience is something like this, yes thoughts appear, and there is not much control over them, but it still seems possible for "me" to influence a little bit, in some way, even if this might just be thoughts on thoughts.

I also, really think that there is some kind of order to the thoughts, for example they circulate around the same themes, things recent in memory for example, things that I have focused on during the day, or that are planned ahead, seems to pop up more often. It also really seems to me, that sometimes at least, a thought take content from a previous thought, it seems to happens many times for me. Ofcourse it can be said that this is just a story I add to the experience of thoughts, but it's a story I believe and that seem to have some support to it, as I could make many examples of when a thought following another seems to be clearly inspired by that thought.

Do you mean that thoughts are completely random and completely unrelated to each other? This is not my experience, even if I can agree I have no control over it.

Good, you’re actually looking. Let’s bring it right into present-moment experience and not let this drift into another conceptual story.

You see that thoughts arise on their own. You’ve tested and cannot choose which thought comes up next. Yet thought-streams can appear to be influenced or to follow a theme. But, slowing it down, the key point here:
Right now, can you directly find anything that is “doing” the thinking?

When you say, “it feels possible to tilt the bias,” what is actually happening in real-time? Is it just more thought describing a sense of “trying”? Is there anything outside of thoughts?

When a “decision” to tilt appears, did you create that decision, or did it simply arise as the next event, another thought among thoughts?

Don’t answer from memory or analysis! Pause. Watch the process of “influencing” or “choosing” a thought in this exact moment. Where is the agent, the “me,” the doer? Is there anything more than thoughts about thoughts, feelings about feelings?

Do you mean that thoughts are completely random and completely unrelated to each other?

No, not random. Patterns and associations are part of the machinery—memory, habit, conditioning, repetition. But none of that is controlled by a separate “you.” It’s just what the machinery does, given its history and conditions. Whatever rises, including the sense of “influence,” is just the next thing appearing, unbidden.

Suppose you are sitting at your desk and a thought appears: “I wonder what I’ll have for dinner tonight.”

Where did it come from?
— Maybe you smelled food earlier.
— Maybe it’s close to mealtime.
— Maybe it’s just a pattern: at this time of day, thoughts about dinner often come up.

The next thought might be: “I should eat healthier. Maybe I’ll make a salad.”

Did you choose this??
No. The previous thought triggered an association: “dinner” — “food choices” — “health.”

Next, maybe a feeling of guilt or resolve appears:
“I really need to eat better. I’ve been tired lately.”

Again, you didn’t construct this on purpose. It’s just the momentum of habit, memory, the body’s state, previous conversations, random associations. If you slow it down, you’ll see that the “I” only appears after the fact, as a story about what just happened.

Try it right now:
1. Let your attention rest on whatever thought appears.
2. Notice the feeling that comes with it.
3. Watch what follows: does it “belong” to anyone, or is it just the next association, the next echo?


So, when the “I can influence” story appears, what is it made of? Anything other than thoughts describing thoughts?

Looking freshly in this moment: Is there any gap between thoughts appearing and your supposed “doing” or “choosing” them?

Stay with the raw, direct experience, don’t drift into explanation….
What’s left when all thoughts about control or influence are seen as just more arising thought?

(Tell me what’s actually here, not what you think about it.)

What's actually here, when really observing, yes, thoughts arising just in the moment. Tilt or influences of what kind of thoughts to think next, is also thoughts, just arising when they arise. I can't pinpoint anything "outside" thought controlling thought. Just thoughts controlling thoughts, or thoughts echoing thoughts, or feelings echoing thoughts, or actions echoing thoughts and the other way around.

However there is still the "feeling" of "me" being able to influence, even if I can see when trying to "catch it" that all notions about influence is just other thoughts influencing thoughts. And even if there is no "me" influencing the thoughts, at least it seems to be a "me" observing these thoughts (as with all experience). Even if a separate observer can not bee found in experience itself (the heard only the heard, the thought only the thought), there is a locus or whatever to it, no one else observe the same thoughts as "me", and so it is easy to name this locus "me".

And I wasn't suppose to build stories or theories around this, but that too is just thought happening by themselves (so I am not to blame :) ). I can see that everything is stories, some believed more than others (thought about a thought being true etc), and so everything is stories, also what we are doing here, we are trying to exchange one set of believed stories for another set of believed stories. Story of "no me" instead of "me" and story of "no control" vs story of "control". All our communication we do is also story, so how is it possible to step out of stories via just other stories?

Here’s the only answer, and you have to stay with it right now, not just read it:
Step out of the story right now. Not by thinking about it, not by believing another idea.
Just stop for a moment. Drop every effort to land somewhere. Don’t look for what’s next, don’t try to “be present.” No commentary. No next step.
What is here, right this instant, with no story?

Stories cannot end by telling another story.

But the looking (the actual, naked seeing) exposes every single story as a story, while it’s happening.

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and SEEING that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference.
If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:
• You can have a think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.
• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking. Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in the moment.

So no, the replacing of one philosophy with another is not what we are up to here. You are correct that ‘no self’ as a concept for thought to attach to is just more nonsense.

If you don’t pick up the story, what’s left?

Stay. Don’t analyze. Don’t escape to “what does this mean?” or “is this it?” That’s just the next story.

Right now, there is image, sounds, sensations and thoughts.

I didnt really understand that about seeing vs knowing, that there is "nothing to give up"?

Perhaps you spent your childhood believing in Santa Claus. Presents appeared, cookies disappeared, clear proof! But eventually, you see there is no Santa. No matter how hard you try, you can’t find Santa anywhere, except in the story, in the mind.

Did you give up Santa? Did you have to let go of Santa? Did you stop believing by effort?
No. One day, reality simply didn’t support the story anymore. You saw the truth. The story fell away, and there was nothing to give up because there was nothing there. Just the story, just the habit of believing.

Images, sounds, sensations, thoughts…
Then a thought says, “There’s a me here experiencing all this, and I need to get rid of that me to wake up.”
But look. Where is this “me”? Where is this thing to give up?

It’s exactly like Santa: The whole struggle is based on believing there’s something real to surrender or transcend! When you actually look (not “know about,” but look) there is nothing there except the believing.

Right now, Is there anything to give up, let go, or awaken from?
Or is it just stories about awakening, just like stories about Santa?
Where is the “you” that’s supposed to do anything, or not do anything?

Drop the knowing. Just look.
Is there a “you” anywhere, in any experience right now? Or just images, sounds, sensations, thoughts, exactly as you wrote?

…And I will also ask that the LIST of image, sound, sensations be experienced directly and reported from not reported about. ;)

If you don’t pick up the story, what’s left?

I don't know, what's here is here. Frustration is definitely here... expectations haven't dropped, and I guess there is nothing I can "do" to drop them, if they drop they drop by themselves, so nothing to do then.

Ok. Is “frustration” something happening to a you, or is it just a bunch of sensations and thoughts labeled “frustration”?
Don’t think—look.

If nothing can be done, and frustration is here, is there anything wrong with this moment at all, except the idea that it should be different?

Describe what is directly here, don’t analyze, don’t narrate. “What’s here is here” is a thought. Just in raw seeing, what is actually here now?