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[philkingston]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There is no 'self', 'I' or 'me' other than habitual stories. There is no thing that these words describe.

There has been a strong conviction there was in the past. This conviction still remains in consciousness unless undone by looking.


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you seeit now.

The separate self is a rapid, automatic and unthinking label applied to experiences to perpetuate a story that there is a distinct being that needs protection, assertion, pleasure, power, praise, success, gain, satiation and which needs to avoid the opposite of these. It is a story for the habits and volitions which underly this behaviour.

Right now as body moves and eyes see there are thoughts and the pleasure of finally giving time to a process the self feels will elevate it, there is resentment that it is cold, there are sensations of anxiety about work ahead, there is awareness of stories about self waiting to play out on the basis a of those sensations.

When looking happens ( a newer habit) the self dissolves into sensations, feelings, volitions, thought chatter.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Right now after a few minutes of writing this there is a sense of clarity, freedom and peace. Before this dialogue such moments were rare and usually in special conditions, like on a retreat.

The last few days haven't been unusual though. Dominated by work and domestic pressure. They have felt much as before.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

In dialogue with Vajralila, staying in a moment of looking, coming back to it over and over again as the mind tried to fill the roaring silence with comment, thought, analysis. Felt like being in free fall.


5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Energies arise and some are realised in action, some aren't. Thought floats on top of this, claiming ownership.

I can see this in DE but tend to assume there's an 'I' in control most of the time. This has been my sticking point these last few days.

6) Anything to add?

As above. Doesn't feel like 'it's done'.

[smudge]

Now go back over these answers right NOW and point yourself, no one else is going to do this for you anymore. What are the ingredients in all this silliness and is self one of them. No more laziness, and answer in full. Number 5 has no examples.


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[smudge]

Im going away in the morning so wanted to be clear on my concerns:

There has been a strong conviction there was in the past. This conviction still remains in consciousness unless undone by looking.
When looking happens ( a newer habit) the self dissolves into sensations, feelings, volitions, thought chatter.
Before this dialogue such moments were rare and usually in special conditions, like on a retreat.

The last few days haven't been unusual though. Dominated by work and domestic pressure. They have felt much as before.
I can see this in DE but tend to assume there's an 'I' in control most of the time. This has been my sticking point these last few days
Doesn't feel like 'it's done'.

All of this seems to indicate that the character in the movie is believed in again even though clearly seen to be an illusion when we spoke, but not only that but indulged in. The movie can be seductive, so much going on, maybe you want to play about in the story some more, that fine. But when the realisation that the pretend separate self is always lacking and the urge to allow the truth to shine, comes back, and answer these 6 questions. Its over to you now, you know when expectations are the latest story or when doubt is the latest story but you hand your power to the 'guide' which ultimately creates a new game. Game over. Look and see or carry on pretending...lets see. I say all this through care and not wanting to collude with the story of 'you' being the 'one' who doesn't get it. Getting it is happening.
Much love,
VL

[philkingston]

Im going away in the morning so wanted to be clear on my concerns:

All of this seems to indicate that the character in the movie is believed in again even though clearly seen to be an illusion when we spoke, but not only that but indulged in. The movie can be seductive, so much going on, maybe you want to play about in the story some more, that fine. But when the realisation that the pretend separate self is always lacking and the urge to allow the truth to shine, comes back, and answer these 6 questions. Its over to you now, you know when expectations are the latest story or when doubt is the latest story but you hand your power to the 'guide' which ultimately creates a new game. Game over. Look and see or carry on pretending...lets see. I say all this through care and not wanting to collude with the story of 'you' being the 'one' who doesn't get it. Getting it is happening.
Much love,
VL

Hi, I'd literally just finished all my tasks in order to sit down and answer the questions again. And throughout the day I had been reflecting on the 'silliness' that is getting in the way.

I know getting it is happening, there's confidence in that. The sense that the self is being indulged doesn't make sense, just as another guide's comment that fear was behind the flip flopping didn't. If either of these were clear obstacles I would embrace them happily.

Yep it's quite possible that being guided is part of the problem. Maybe I am handing my power over. It feels very self establishing to take my power back though.

What I really don't want to do is keep drawing upon the goodwill of people kind enough to help. You seemed convinced I saw through the illusion. That experience didn't have the transformative effect it seems to have had for so many others on this site.

I've no doubt at all that your response comes from care. It's been delightful working with you, so many, many thanks. Going it alone as you suggest feels right too (it's been nearly exactly a year since I started). Something needs to change. I don't want to establish new dependencies.

At the same time some sense of community is helpful. I expect the doubts and expectations will increase if I cut off completely. So I'm going to keep in touch with the site and if there's anybody out here reading this who's been on a similar journey, I'd be happy to hear from them.

Love

LV

[philkingston]

Oh and hope you have a lovely holiday!

[smudge]

Thanks,
This post is open for when those 6 answers are ready.
Take care
x

PS: you didn't see through the illusion, that would be like a movie character putting his head out the screen and seeing he isn't real...crazy!

[philkingston]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There is no thing that is 'I, me, self'. There's a story, an interpretation of experience, a habit of response but no actual thing.

And there never was because it doesn't exist.


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

Sitting here, typing this there is a barely conscious picture/ sense of a self doing things, a fallback assumption that actions, thoughts, feelings are being had by this 'self'. When examined this assumption dissolves into bare sensation.

So there is a habit of mind which labels thoughts and memories as proof of a 'me'. There is also a habit of sitting in thoughts, at a remove from experience, and feeling this is 'me'.


3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

There are a lot of feelings - one is pretty mild, 'So, what's the big deal?' There is a subtler excitement at a sense of freedom. There is anxiety and doubt, 'I've been here before, am I trying to talk myslef into something?' There is something more expansive, more peaceful that has no thought or sense of self attached to it.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

No one thing, the process has been cumulative, there have been many moments. Every weekday morning I get to sit quietly prcticing direct experience and there are regular moments of deeper clarity

I have also been practicing the Headless Way finger pointing exercise daily which often results in a moment of expansive, egoless awareness.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How
does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Things happen mostly outside of what my thoughts describe as 'my control' and some are labelled 'my decisions'. Energies accumulate on the basis of conditions, some of which are part of the ongoing narrative about 'my volition'. Sometimes this is seen clearly as a story imposed, sometimes the perspective is narrower and 'I' am in a daydream of control.

Right now, thoughts occur and then are typed slowly and inaccaurately into the laptop. None of this is being done by a me until attention is brought to the activity and a swift process of labelling as mine is seen to be taking place on top of the actions. When 'I' go back to correct the mistakes, again the actions in themselves are not being driven or created by any thing, they are born of conditions, previous actions/thoughts/ understandings.

6) Anything to add?

Doing this alone feels like it has stalled. As you are aware my attempt to be guided by a friend who is more intimate with the situation has been stopped. I feel I have been honest in this dialogue but there is a sense from at least three of those guiding me that this isn't working.

I live with someone who has seen through the illusion of a fixed self and it is quite plain that something has changed for them so I am confident this is possible. I am open to the possibility it takes time for some people. There is no going back to how I practiced before but also there is a sort of impasse in this process.

There is frustration also at language. Looking back even over this brief bit of writing it doesn't get close enough to the specificity of what I'm trying to say and often comes out sounding clichéd. There have also been occasions when I've felt something I've reported has been taken too literally and language has become a limitation in the dialogue as opposed to a means of communication.

best

Lalitavira

[smudge]

Nice to hear from you! Thank you for your answers. I will just see if the other guides have any questions and get back to you. X


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[smudge]

No more questions, seeing is happening !!
If you give your Facebook name we can add you to aftercare groups, these can be a great support with the flip flopping between getting it and re -believing in thoughts.

Really really pleased for you. Lovely treading some of this path with you.

Lots of love. VL. X


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[philkingston]

Thank you!

And a pleasure getting to know you better too.

much love back,

LV xxx