Am I awake already?

[graceabounds]

Doubt is a thought held up by other thoughts.

You have seen that sensation in the body is not personal. But there is identification still with the one who thinks… it is holding fast. Going through this process doesn’t mean you will turn into a zombie or a vegetable, just that these thoughts won’t be owned!

Why can´t "I" be the manifestation of this body and group of sensations, thoughts, etc? What´s the problem with calling all of this "I" or "me"?

The problem with calling it all “I” is that the moment you do, you create the illusion of an entity that could have or be those things. That’s the root of the seeking, the tension, the sense that something is missing.

There is no picking and choosing. Believe in one thought. Believe in the whole structure.

You see: when thoughts drop it is crisp and perfect, but also thoughts will never cease. The mechanism will continue beyond ‘awakening’. But the difference is when, a thought says for example, “I am ugly” or “I don’t understand” or even “I have already seen” then what is the level of belief there? What is the attachment to it being true or not true?

Regarding the subtle anxiety, can you find and identify the thought underneath the anxiety? What is the driving belief about the future that is being exposed by this feeling?

Is there a way to stop this obsessive thinking pattern of "I am already awake"?

Is this thought particularly unpleasant? Or is it the counter thought of “becca doesn’t believe I am awake” that is unpleasant? If you had any control over thoughts, don’t you think you would choose not to think such thoughts at all? Wouldn’t you be able to CHOOSE never to have any thought that seems to make you unhappy?

And we circle back to the core question:
Are you the thinker of thoughts?

What if I told you there is nothing here that can be understood? Only experienced…

<3

[globyt]

Hi Becca!
Just lost everything I had typed in response – must be a reason for this. Here I go again:

But the difference is when, a thought says for example, “I am ugly” or “I don’t understand” or even “I have already seen” then what is the level of belief there? What is the attachment to it being true or not true?

What do you mean by “level of belief”?
Would the attachment to it being true or not true change with awakening, then?
What do you mean by a thought being “true” or “not true”? Are you referring to the content?

There is no picking and choosing. Believe in one thought. Believe in the whole structure.

So are you suggesting that I drop all belief in every thought?
But don´t I need these thoughts for guidance? For daily tasks?
How would I go about life without “using” thought.
What exactly do you mean by “believing” thoughts?

Regarding the subtle anxiety, can you find and identify the thought underneath the anxiety? What is the driving belief about the future that is being exposed by this feeling?

The anxiety is fear about the future.
The thought underneath is “I am not good enough, I will fail, I wont be able to cope, I wont make it” etc.

Anxiety appears out of the blue without asking for permission. So does thoughts. Is there the thought, then a belief in that thought, and then anxiety? Is that what´s happening?

Is this thought particularly unpleasant? Or is it the counter thought of “becca doesn’t believe I am awake” that is unpleasant?

Both are present and unpleasant, because they are interfering or obscuring my seeing.
Are they repeating themselves because I am believing them? Is the belief in the thought giving it momentum?
It doesn´t seem like I am believing them though, it is like an automatic belief.
Can I choose to not believe them then?

If you had any control over thoughts, don’t you think you would choose not to think such thoughts at all? Wouldn’t you be able to CHOOSE never to have any thought that seems to make you unhappy?

I have seen that there is no control over the thoughts that appear, but then is there a choice in believing them?

And we circle back to the core question:
Are you the thinker of thoughts?

If there is no control over thoughts, thoughts simply appear, than I couldn´t possibly be the thinker.

What if I told you there is nothing here that can be understood? Only experienced…

By “here” do you mean in this conversation?
Or in life?
If the latter then are you suggesting that I drop all understanding of everything?
If so, then how?
I can say to myself “you don´t know anything”, but that is another thought.
How to drop?
How can I drop the seemingly automatic belief in thoughts? Its so quick.


I tried the mirror exercise, and it was interesting to see that the sensation didn´t correspond with the image or the movement.
Sensation was broader and not limited to the image of the body.
Sensation was there and unmovable while the hand did move.
It felt like dissociation – like the hand wasn´t mine.


Just to recap a bit >
I have seen that my being is still, always present, unchanging through time.
There is an “experiencing” of this being, although it is not an experience.
There is also seeing of objects.
Objects such as thoughts, experiences, sensations, emotions… appear and disappear.
Would seeing that this “beingness” is not a separate entity be the “next step”?

THANK YOU <3

[graceabounds]

Hello,

Would the attachment to it being true or not true change with awakening, then?

Yes, precisely. There isn’t a one to coalesce around.

You are seeing that thoughts arise automatically and aren’t generated by a thinker, but there is still a one who is keeping score so to speak. Who takes these thoughts as real. Who evaluates true/false or wanted/unwanted.

The exit is not in trying to choose not to believe, but to turn around and look at who is taking any of this as real.

You saw in the mirror exercise: the hand wasn’t yours! Sensation moved freely, image floated, no owner. Exactly so with thought. They move, they suggest, they dissolve. “Mine” is just another thought, automatically tagged on.

It felt like dissociation – like the hand wasn´t mine.

Dissociation is pulling away from experience, numbing, cutting off. What happened in the mirror exercise was the opposite! you were closer than ever.

Look… sensation was there, raw. Image was there, raw. The link (“this is my hand”) was seen as just thought, not fact. That’s not disconnecting. That’s dropping the extra layer.

Check right now: when you notice hand sensations, and then notice the thought “my hand” appear, isn’t the sensation still fully alive, immediate?
Is anything missing, or is it actually more direct without the ownership story?

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.
This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”. For example: I am sitting on a chair, I am hearing a clock ticking, I am looking at a computer screen, I am feeling hungry. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs. For example: sitting on a chair, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the clock. (Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labeled and answer the following four questions:
1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

The anxiety is fear about the future.
The thought underneath is “I am not good enough, I will fail, I wont be able to cope, I wont make it” etc.

Good, now straight to the body. Where is the anxiety felt? Chest? Throat? Gut?
Get right inside the raw sensation—heat, tightness, vibration, pressure. Stay there. Without wrapping it in the future-thoughts, or making meaning of it, what exactly is this sensation?

Going to land here for now though there were many more questions open. Keep it up! More to come.

[globyt]

Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The first one felt weird, I wanted to rush to the next one because it felt uncomfortable. The second one felt truer, but still not true 100%.

What is here without labels?

Senses, movement, being…

Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Labels affect the experience - the first exercise felt like the body contracting a bit. As if there were less “experiencing” or reduced. Next exercise felt better on the body, still some contraction with the label. It prefers silence.

Did you notice any differences in the body?

It’s like the body prefers silence and just feeling rather than putting a name to each thing. It relaxes with just allowing the experience to be.

Yes, precisely. There isn’t a one to coalesce around.

Then how are choices made then? I real life example would help :)


What is the deal with conditioning, personality, memory?
Are these part of the mystery? No explanation needed? Just happens?

Get right inside the raw sensation—heat, tightness, vibration, pressure. Stay there. Without wrapping it in the future-thoughts, or making meaning of it, what exactly is this sensation?

I can´t explain it without using thought.
I was going to say an energy, but that is also a thought...
It just something that appears in the body - and we label it heat, tightness, etc. And the final label is anxiety.

[graceabounds]

Labels affect the experience - the first exercise felt like the body contracting a bit. As if there were less “experiencing” or reduced. Next exercise felt better on the body, still some contraction with the label. It prefers silence.

It’s like the body prefers silence and just feeling rather than putting a name to each thing. It relaxes with just allowing the experience to be.

Yes, lovely seeing.
Words are all labels, not direct experience, and the body knows that ‘I’ is a lie, hence the uncomfortable contraction.

Then how are choices made then? I real life example would help :)

Thirst comes. hand reaches for water. At what point was there a little “you” deciding? If you rewind, it’s sensation. movement. The thought “I chose” comes after, like a narrator stamping ownership.

What is the deal with conditioning, personality, memory?
Are these part of the mystery? No explanation needed? Just happens?

Pretty much…
Nothing personal about them. They appear, they move things, they fade. They’re not obstacles, not problems, not even “yours.” They’re weather. They pass.

The mystery isn’t in figuring them out, it’s in seeing there was never a controller behind them.

1. Pause.
2. Let the body just move however it moves for the next few seconds. Don’t plan. Don’t guide. Just notice.
3. Now look: did you “choose” what happened? or did it simply happen?

Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened. That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.
Please don’t go to thought explanations, but just let a memory be there, and look at it. Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say - but what actually is.

What is memory exactly?
What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.
What is the future thought ‘made of’?
WHEN does the future thought appear?
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
If there is difference how is that difference is known exactly?

I can´t explain it without using thought.
I was going to say an energy, but that is also a thought...
It just something that appears in the body - and we label it heat, tightness, etc. And the final label is anxiety.

Beautiful.
The story shrinks the sensations into “a problem.” Without the label, it’s simply alive.

Can you rest with the sensation before the word? Not knowing what it is, not making it mean anything. Just this.
What happens if you stay with it without any name at all?

[globyt]

Nothing personal about them. They appear, they move things, they fade. They’re not obstacles, not problems, not even “yours.” They’re weather. They pass.

But then why do they all seem to be RELATED to the experience that happens here?

The mystery isn’t in figuring them out, it’s in seeing there was never a controller behind them.

The controller isn’t there, but there seems to be a relational aspect of some sort..?

1. Pause.
2. Let the body just move however it moves for the next few seconds. Don’t plan. Don’t guide. Just notice.
3. Now look: did you “choose” what happened? or did it simply happen?

It simply happens. No chooser.

Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened.

But… we wouldn´t call it a memory if it wasn´t about something that has happened before. How could it not be about something that has happened?!? (head blown).

What is memory exactly?

A thought – an image thought.

What is the memory ‘made of’?

Images?

WHEN does the memory appear?

There is a capacity to go after it, or go to it with the mind.
These thought images appear after the experience.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

No difference, except thoughts not always have images attached. Memory does.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

This question makes no sense :/ hahah
But memory IS an image of something that happened. Because there is "remembering" of the experience... now this explanation seems like a loop.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?

Images

WHEN does the future thought appear?

Before an experience.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

No difference. Future thoughts not always have images attached. It seems.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

But a future thought does not refer to something that will happen. It never does.

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

They are made of the same thing, same substance. No difference.
Except we label them differently depending on the content of the thought. If it refers to a past experience, then memory. If not, then its like imagination.

If there is difference how is that difference known exactly?

Well, there seems to be a knowing if something was experienced before or not. Hence the difference.

Please don’t go to thought explanations, but just let a memory be there, and look at it. Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say - but what actually is.

I´m caught in thought, right? Can´t see where though...
There is no seeing that a memory is NOT from something that has happened before.

Can you rest with the sensation before the word? Not knowing what it is, not making it mean anything. Just this.

Yes, if I consciously decide to, but I don´t always “remember” to. I get caught so to speak.

What happens if you stay with it without any name at all?

It rises, goes through the body, and then leaves. That’s it.

<3

[graceabounds]

Let’s break this trance. Don’t try to solve the “relational aspect” or make sense of why memories seem about “your” past and thoughts seem to orbit “your” experience. That’s all just another storm, more weather. You already see it’s not “yours,” not controlled, not authored. They just pass through, as you said.

But you’re still trying to land the final aha!…how can a memory not refer to something that happened, when it feels like it does?

Let a memory come up now. Anything. Don’t analyze it—just let it be there.
Now: what is actually happening right now?
— A mental image. Maybe a feeling.
— That’s it.
Where is the “past” in this? Where is the evidence, right now, that this mental image is from something real, something “that happened”?

Drop all stories. Is there anything but the mental image and a feeling?

You already glimpsed it… the knowing that it refers to the past is itself a thought. It’s never found anywhere but as content arising now. That’s all that’s here.

Now look at a future thought:
Same thing. Image, maybe some feeling. Is there any actual “future” in it? Where is it?
Again, nothing but what’s arising right now.

So what is the difference?
Only the story about time (about past and future) makes one a “memory” and the other “imagination.”
Both are just passing content.

Let the identification with the “one who remembers” or “one who imagines” fall away for a second.
Just let what’s here be here, without needing it to be from or about anything else.

Can you rest with the sensation before the word? Not knowing what it is, not making it mean anything. Just this.

Yes, if I consciously decide to, but I don´t always “remember” to. I get caught so to speak.

But who or what is the one that needs to remember?
See if you can catch the very feeling of “I forgot to be present,” as just another passing weather pattern, not a failing. Let the “I got caught” story be seen as just another appearance.

Let a memory, a sensation, an image, a label, any of it, just float up.
Can you find the owner?
Can you find the source, the controller?
Or is it just all showing up and vanishing, the way a rain shower comes and goes?

Is there, in any way, shape, or form, a separate self behind any of this?
Not “was there,” not “could there be”, right now.

Can you report what’s actually here?
Not an idea of what’s here, just the bare, naked experiencing. Describe it. And if you feel you’re getting caught, look at the exact feeling of “being caught.”
Where is it, what is it, before the story grabs it?
What is left, if you let even that pass?

[globyt]

Where is the “past” in this? Where is the evidence, right now, that this mental image is from something real, something “that happened”?

Drop all stories. Is there anything but the mental image and a feeling?

If I were to drop every single story about anything and everything in this world, then the only things that actually exist are:
-Thoughts
-Sensations
-Sounds
-Beingness
Knowing that all of these exist is also real.


There is a bit of a pull to slow down and just "be" - less trying to figure out.

Sort of like the written exercise with "I" and without the "I" - its like my body wants to relax in silence.

Yet, I could sit down and meditate, but I don´t.
I could stop watching videos, but I don´t.

And still, there is a knowing that my body needs silence and just being.

Let the identification with the “one who remembers” or “one who imagines” fall away for a second.
Just let what’s here be here, without needing it to be from or about anything else.

When I allow this I relax into the moment.


Is all of this that we have been doing pointing to: relax into the beingness? This is what is seems like these past few days...

Let a memory, a sensation, an image, a label, any of it, just float up.
Can you find the owner?

I would lie to you if I said there is no owner - still of a slight sense of ownership although I know there is no real one.
Yet, after typing this I noticed that the above sentence is also a thought and a belief which can be dropped.
What´s left then? Only the real listed above.
The owner is only there because I am grabbing on to the belief: "there is still a sense of ownership". What if I no longer believed that I believe this?

Can you find the source, the controller?

Definitely not a controller.
The source is not clear either.

Or is it just all showing up and vanishing, the way a rain shower comes and goes?

Its all just coming up and leaving.

Is there, in any way, shape, or form, a separate self behind any of this?
Not “was there,” not “could there be”, right now.

Right now, nothing more or else than what is appearing (thoughts, sounds, sensations)

Can you report what’s actually here?
Not an idea of what’s here, just the bare, naked experiencing. Describe it. And if you feel you’re getting caught, look at the exact feeling of “being caught.”
Where is it, what is it, before the story grabs it?

Its just a thought, a belief.
There is "grabbing" on to thoughts, and then a consecutive feeling that results in a thought "you can´t stay in the present moment", and then the belief that "someone got caught". No one got caught, its just another thought.

What is left, if you let even that pass?

Just the above mentioned things that are actually real.


I think we should continue in this inquiry of the belief system within the "staying away from the present moment".
I am starting to see that "getting caught" is a belief, "grabbing thoughts" is a belief... lets dive deep in this.... Its helping right now. Helping who though?? Ugh.

:)

[graceabounds]

Yet, I could sit down and meditate, but I don´t.
I could stop watching videos, but I don´t.

And still, there is a knowing that my body needs silence and just being

Yes. Just notice the pull to distract. Meditation even can be a kind of agenda, a distraction. What is, is already here. Just being is here.

I am starting to see that "getting caught" is a belief, "grabbing thoughts" is a belief... lets dive deep in this.... Its helping right now. Helping who though?? Ugh.

I love that last “ugh” :)
The reflex to look for an owner of the process, a desire for resolution.
Stay here.

Let all stories about “progress,” “growth,” or “being present” dissolve. All ideas about “letting go,” “staying away from the present moment,” “trying,” or “failing” are just movements in thought.

Is there, anywhere, a “someone” who needs to stay present? Or is there just the arising—thought, sensation, sound, even the “pull” toward silence—all showing up and vanishing, just as a rain shower comes and goes, no owner required? Even the belief “I know there is no real owner”… don’t replace one story with a subtler one! Let the “owner” story fall silent.

When the belief in being “caught” arises, where is it, exactly? Is it more than a ripple in thought, paired with a body feeling, and then quickly named and claimed by a ghostly “me”? What’s left when you drop even the watcher, the doer, the knower?

No “one” ever stayed away from or came back to the present moment.
No “one” ever “grabbed” a thought or let one go.

There was never anyone to help. :)
There is only the appearing and vanishing, inescapable and ownerless.

Look: When the idea arises, “This is helping,” who is that for?
When the relief comes (“relaxing into the moment”), is there a “relaxer”? Or is even that just another sensation (of expansion, of release) no owner, no controller?

Keep describing what is left when all stories, all watchers, all owners are dropped, even the one who would “let go.”
What do you find right now, not in thought?
Is there, anywhere, in any form, a separate self behind any of this?

Or has there never been?

Don’t answer with a concept. Look, now. Type exactly what is present. If contraction or confusion arises, describe that sensation, not your thoughts/interpretation about it.

Much love!

[globyt]

Hi again Becca 😊

I feel all words are just too much right now.

Keep describing what is left when all stories, all watchers, all owners are dropped, even the one who would “let go.”

Just being, which needs no description.
I could say “still, silent, peaceful, boundless”… but those are still thought.

It’s the seeing of how everything is pervaded in thought.

Is there, anywhere, in any form, a separate self behind any of this?

The word “separate” is confusing.
Separate from what?


I´m still watching videos on Youtube – I listen to them and they make more sense then ever. Its like “I don’t need them anymore”, and yet the pull to keep “seeking” appears. Whilst there is also a recognition of this pull.


A part of me says that it can´t be that simple.
Another part of me feels like the search is over - that the searching is what is keeping me away from being.


Right now, it feels like all that is needed is that I rest as the being that I know myself to be. That’s it.


With other people, there is like a seeing through them, through the falsehood of their stories. It is painful yet so much compassion for this.


No grand shift. No honeymoon. No flood of love, joy, or any other mystical woo-woo label. Just simple being. Is this all that was out of sight?


And then my mind goes… “well, if no honeymoon feeling, then there is probably more to this”. And doubt arises. And then falls away…and arises again.


Its just recognizing and relaxing into the being. Right?


Also there is a recognition that its not like one realizes the being and then that’s it. The real work has only just begun. Like the falling away of all beliefs, the crumbling down has only just begun.


And yet doubt keeps creeping up in the form of “Your understanding is still mental”, “Keep Becca close in case there is more to this that you are not seeing”… etc etc.


Love to you!

[graceabounds]

Yes yes dear, this is how the illusion falls apart. It is this simple, even stupid-simple :)

In essence, doubt is a state a vacillation between two or more ideas. But there is no self in those ideas. They are just as spontaneously arising as any other thoughts, and not at all something which we can define as, or attribute to a “you”.

I think you are seeing this, so…
Is there anyone doing doubt, or does it just arise on its own?

Regarding the YouTube videos, see the seeking urge come up, do its dance, and let it be exactly as it is. No need to suppress it.
But also Look if there is anyone who could do seeking or stop seeking.

Where is the “seeker,” right now, in actual experience?
Or is it just another appearance, with no owner?

What do you find, when all watchers, all owners, all stories, even the “one who lets go,” are gone?

The real work has only just begun. Like the falling away of all beliefs, the crumbling down has only just begun.

Exactly. But you know how to LOOK, which is how to approach each belief, each contraction or expectation, as it arises in its own time to be explored. (And I’m here if something sticky arises.)


Would you like some questions to see if there are any gaps in clear seeing?


Much love,
Becca

[globyt]

Hi Becca,

I keep typing and deleting because after typing I notice how belief is in everything I say.

Would you like some questions to see if there are any gaps in clear seeing?

Don´t think I´m ready yet, so many gaps in clear seeing...
Is this a limiting belief too?

I wonder why this seeing is so gradual/slow? I hear and read everywhere that there is like a "click" or a a sudden insight, and its not been my experience at all.

This brings up plenty of doubts.

Also, I don´t believe the non-separation itself is seen. Yet maybe this is also a limiting belief in itself... and I feel like a hamster now, running on an endless wheel.

I can´t say I don´t identify with thought fully. There is less attachment maybe...and not always.

Is the end of suffering the end of total identification from thought? The end of the "thoughts crumbling"?
And is therefore seeing that you are not your thoughts only the first "step"?

Back into a loop of confusion as you can see.
But its just that right?
Just a movement labeled "confusion". Comes up and leaves.

Where is the “seeker,” right now, in actual experience?
Or is it just another appearance, with no owner?

There never really was a seeker.
The seeking process is all fake.
There is an apparent seeking process for the seeker who thinks she is a seeker.
But in reality, all there is, is just objects appearing in awareness.


Since "conditioning" is unique to each individual, there is a tendency to call it "mine".
It feels like habitual thought patterns make it more difficult to not believe in the thoughts.

What do you find, when all watchers, all owners, all stories, even the “one who lets go,” are gone?

All I find is a knowing of everything.
A beingness. An awareness of everything that appears.
Still, silent, unmovable, no boundary...


<3<3<3<3<3<3

[graceabounds]

I keep typing and deleting because after typing I notice how belief is in everything I say.

I don’t think we have covered this before, it may be helpful…

We know what it is for a thought to arise. But what is it to believe a thought? What's going on there?
Normally speaking, belief is an attitude we have towards a thought, statement or proposition. It's not the thought itself, but something we think or feel about it.

Schematically, it's like this:

1 (Thought "A") "I’m not ready yet."

2 (Thought "B") "I feel strongly that A is true."
In this case, the belief about thought "A" is actually thought "B."
This is ironic! When we believe a thought, it's just another thought, with maybe a touch of hope or fear (feelings) that it is true. Of course, the "believing" thought could take a different form. Instead of the mere statement that "I think A is true," the believing thought could be one or more other thoughts:

3 (Thought "C") "'When someone agrees with 'A', I feel a warm sense of pleasure."

4 (Thought "D") "When someone disagrees with 'A', I get hurt, angry or confused."

5 (Thought "E") ""Because of 'C' and 'D', I realize that I must really believe that "A" is true."

All of these are separate thoughts. Even the feelings and reactions mentioned in "C" and "D" are nothing more than other mental objects, other "thoughts" in a wider sense.
So the beliefs about thoughts are merely thoughts. They aren't really different from the thoughts themselves. They all appear and pass. It turns out that the believing thought and the believed thought are never present at the same time. They are separate and independent from each other. So belief is a claim never borne out by direct experience.

This is the longer version of “doubt is a thought held up by other thoughts”.

So all these questions, this doubt... WHO is it feeding? Where is the identification with geolocating or understanding THIS? Who needs to compare this process with another process? Look there.

Also, I don´t believe the non-separation itself is seen

Can you find “non-separation” as a thing?
Can you find separation anywhere outside of a thought-story about separation?
Look at your hand, look at the wall, look at a sound: Where is the boundary?
Is there actually a wall, a you, a separation? Or is that just a habitual label laid on top of raw seeing?

:)
-Becca

[globyt]

Hey Becca :)
It´s been a while... there was a need for some pause and reflection. I´ve also been really busy at work.

Regarding the separation aspect of this path >

In direct experience with sound I have seen there is no me, and the sound. No distinguishable two. Also when seeing, where is the actual boundary between myself and the thing seen? Can´t find it.

Does "no-separation" mean this: that in reality there is no distinction between the "experiencer" and the thing being "experienced"? So there is no "thing" that that experience is happening to. Its just "that" happening.

Can you find “non-separation” as a thing?

No, its not a thing, just a concept, a thought used to describe a form of perception?

Can you find separation anywhere outside of a thought-story about separation?

Distance is a concept too, so I can´t really say in direct experience that "distance" between two things really exists.

Look at your hand, look at the wall, look at a sound: Where is the boundary?

There is no boundary really... is seeing looking at itself then? Are all objects in view the same as whatever is seeing? If there is no boundary then they have to be the same, right?

Is there actually a wall, a you, a separation? Or is that just a habitual label laid on top of raw seeing?

In direct experience, now, I can´t pinpoint the actual point of distinction between 2 things.


So just to clarify...when I say "in direct experience", i have to purposefully look. But in my day to day life, the perception is not one of seeing what I´m seeing when I purposefully look. There seems to be an effort to be able to see everything I have detailed above.
Do you, Becca, need to make an effort too? Or do you just see this all the time?



ÒK, not sure I made any sense hahah

Thank you so.
:)

[graceabounds]

Hello,

Great!

What is being pointed to here is that all is not as it 'seems'... that there are a lot of assumptions we 'live with' which are not held up when looking in direct experience.

So without, thinking ABOUT it, and just sitting with your question:

Does "no-separation" mean this: that in reality there is no distinction between the "experiencer" and the thing being "experienced"? So there is no "thing" that that experience is happening to. Its just "that" happening.

What does sitting within this this mean for the illusion of a separate self 'in the center of' experience?

There seems to be an effort to be able to see everything I have detailed above.

Yes. Because there is a lot of layers of belief that it shouldn't be the way it is. Keep doing it from time to time. The goal is not to be in it all the time, but to come to see that it is available at any time. That it is True.

...And then to take this lack of boundary and look in the very same way in direct experience...

If there is no separation, are there others?

If the belief about separation is not true, is any thought True?

Is the belief that there a separate self at all, anywhere, True? If so, Where is it in direct experience?