with open curiosity and gratitude

[Sol42]

Hello, Magdalena :)

Does the world need Sol’s agreement?

No. It's irrelevant.

Come to think of it, can there be anything wrong with having one little cupcake at 11 at night?

This one opened a whole can of worms. Tried it yesterday and totally got hypnotized by thoughts: guilt, irritation, annoyance at myself. Wasn’t present at all. Thoughts about one cupcake is ok, but what about 3? 10? , among others. Return to wondering about control.
Also – purely on the level of sensation – resistance and irritation. Body feels the effect of sugar, very specific sensations. Instead of exploring them - irritation and restlessness. Oh my…

Maybe that’s the proper awakening: just eat that cupcake and move on, like a cat would if they were into cupcakes? LOL
How about one more line for the Bahiya sutta: “In the eaten, only the eaten”?

Looking into everything eaten in this way now, but there is resistance. Many eating instances seem compulsive, rather than just natural, as it would be for a cat. Feels like a lot of confusion: feelings, beliefs, sensations - all jumped out of the box at once. Letting it settle.

... a little shocked, to be honest.

With gratitude,

Sol

[Magdalena]

Hello Sol,

Tried it yesterday and totally got hypnotized by thoughts: guilt, irritation, annoyance at myself.

Sounds like there is a belief that eating is tied to issues like propriety, identity, and control?

That enjoying the eating is wrong?

That enjoying must be rationed?

Or tied to certain circumstances and not others?

Otherwise, why all the shoulds and shouldn'ts, rules, self judgements, and what not?



What if nothing is actually wrong here?

What if the only problem is the idea that something needs to be different?

Looking into everything eaten in this way now, but there is resistance. Many eating instances seem compulsive, rather than just natural, as it would be for a cat.

When you say "compulsive", what do you really mean? What’s underneath that word?

What stories are running in the background when eating get labelled "compulsive"?

Feels like a lot of confusion: feelings, beliefs, sensations - all jumped out of the box at once. Letting it settle.

Letting it settle is fine, but what exactly is there to settle?

Is this actually a problem, or just thoughts making it into one?

[Sol42]

Hello, Magdalena!

Sounds like there is a belief that eating is tied to issues like propriety, identity, and control?

Absolutely. Beliefs:
- Certain things harm my body
- I don’t take good care of my body
- I am irresponsible and instinct-driven, I should be “better”, more evolved than this
- There is an enemy inside of me who wants to hurt me – house divided, no control, no understanding of my own motives
- Identity: ladies don’t eat like animals - rejection of the “animal” part of me that reaches for comfort and pleasure no matter the consequences. Something base and disgusting.

That enjoying the eating is wrong?

Conditionally. Enjoying eating is good, just has to be smart/controlled/healthy. Nourished body feels good. Lethargic and heavy body feels uncomfortable.

That enjoying must be rationed?

Oh gosh YES! Too much enjoyment is dangerous. Because the other shoe will definitely drop, sooner rather than later.

Or tied to certain circumstances and not others?

Ha! Back to “one should be productive” belief. Watching a good documentary is the “right” enjoyment. Binging on a stupid series just for entertainment is the “wrong” enjoyment. Eating one too many apples is all right. Eating one too many cookies is harmful.

Otherwise, why all the shoulds and shouldn'ts, rules, self judgements, and what not?

Obviously - a very rigid system of rights/wrongs here.

What if nothing is actually wrong here?

Can’t tap into this right now – the body sensation is very clear and the label attached to this unpleasant sensation is very sticky.

What if the only problem is the idea that something needs to be different?

Yup. This makes “me” feel trapped – “but I don’t like how it is!”. Tough luck.

When you say "compulsive", what do you really mean? What’s underneath that word?
What stories are running in the background when eating get labelled "compulsive"?

Ha! What’s underneath the word is lack of control. Moving, reaching, chewing, swallowing while being in the passenger seat, unable to do anything but throw judgements and accusations. As for the stories in the background… hm… “I am a disgusting human being, just a little animal, I am hopeless”. This feels being woven deep into…what?!? It is not my story. It doesn’t even make sense when I start looking into it, yet it is so convincing, so habitual. And many of "my" actions (most of my actions) are interpreted as proof of this story.

Letting it settle is fine, but what exactly is there to settle?

At the moment there is a feeling of overwhelm: being under attack by too many thoughts/concepts. If I reject them wholesale, I'm left naked and with no ground to stand on. Which kinda seems like exactly the right thing, now that I feel into it.

Is this actually a problem, or just thoughts making it into one?

No problem here, just thoughts, except for – and this is the confusing part – the unpleasant body sensations. The “unpleasant” part of this is also just a thought, and the sensation itself is, well, just a sensation.

Gonna "go" and "stand" on "no ground", see what comes up, LOL.


With gratitude,

Sol

[Magdalena]

Hello Sol,

Too much enjoyment is dangerous. Because the other shoe will definitely drop, sooner rather than later.

LOL so much b/s there - all of it LOL
Hope you're seeing how ungrounded all of it is? Harming the body with cupcakes, ladies not having "animal" instincts... LoL

Eating one too many apples is all right. Eating one too many cookies is harmful.

The only thing that can hold one in a cage is too many beliefs that are uncritically embraced. Sure, when we are children and parents and teachers tell us things, It's basically for our safety and ultimately survival, isn't it?
But once we know better, it's just as OK to say good bye to all that b/s.

Laugh it off and enjoy life in any way it presents itself.
Unless your greatest desire is to die a saint, which is perfectly fine too.

the body sensation is very clear and the label attached to this unpleasant sensation is very sticky.

Take away those labels of "unpleasant" and "sticky" - what remains?

l am a disgusting human being, just a little animal, I am hopeless”. This feels being woven deep into…what?!? It is not my story. It doesn’t even make sense when I start looking into it

Spot on.
It's not even "your" story and yet it's caught you by the nose. LOL

too many thoughts/concepts. If I reject them wholesale, I'm left naked and with no ground to stand on. Which kinda seems like exactly the right thing, now that I feel into it.

Anything holding you?
There is no ground anyway, and there never was.

Gonna "go" and "stand" on "no ground", see what comes up,

Hell yeah!
And?

What happens when you eat without any of the stories? Just pure sensation, sight, smell, motion, taste —without a someone doing it?


No eater, no eaten, just eating happening naturally, functionally, seamlessly?

Is there a Sol that's separate from the cupcake? 🙂🧁🌞
Or an apple for that matter? 🙂🍎🌞

[Sol42]

Hello Magdalena,
I apologize it’s taking me so long to respond: a couple of intense days. Will be back here tommorrow!
🙏🏻
Sol

[Magdalena]

No problem - take care 🙂

[Sol42]

Hello, Magdalena.

LOL so much b/s there - all of it LOL
Hope you're seeing how ungrounded all of it is?

I guess I do and I don’t. Remember we talked about Grim’s stories being as true as my stories (or vice versa)? It occurred to me, that, somehow, I’ve been applying this to the story of my past and the imaginary stories of my future. But not to my thoughts as they arise. How could I have missed it?!
Now it did sink in, no idea how deep.

The only thing that can hold one in a cage is too many beliefs that are uncritically embraced.

Good point. I often get hypnotized by thoughts and forget to look at them critically.

the body sensation is very clear and the label attached to this unpleasant sensation is very sticky.
Take away those labels of "unpleasant" and "sticky" - what remains?

Feeling “stuck” here. It is unpleasant. “Removing” the label, dismissing recurring thought “but it IS unpleasant” as just a thought. The body feels dense, me rejects the sensation, frustration comes up, restlessness. And I “run away” from the experience. Feeling tired and confused and irritated. Staying with the sensation brings up tears. I want to spend more time on this.

too many thoughts/concepts. If I reject them wholesale, I'm left naked and with no ground to stand on. Which kinda seems like exactly the right thing, now that I feel into it.
Anything holding you?

Theoretically (well, really) nothing is holding me. Yet, in practice: eating a cupcake triggers what feels like a dumpster fire. Oh well. Will continue investigating.

It is a messy response, and I do feel messy. Confused. It's all good. I hope to be able to get back to the rest of your questions soon. Really want to feel into this "stuck"ness more. If you have any pointers in the meantime, it would be greatly appreciated, as always!

With gratitude,

Sol

[Magdalena]

Hey Sol,

Looks like you’re right in the thick of it now. Seeing the mental stories in past and future is one thing, but seeing that even the thoughts right now are just stories too is quite another, isn’t it?

Feeling ‘stuck’ here. It is unpleasant.

Yeah, but WHO is stuck?

WHAT is actually unpleasant?

When looking directly, is there really an experiencer separate from the sensation, or is there just raw experience happening, no owner?

me rejects the sensation

But can you actually find a “me” doing that, or is there just rejection happening, by itself?


What if instead of trying to get unstuck, you just let the stuckness be exactly as it is — without fighting it, without needing it to change? (as if there was any choice either way LOL)

[Sol42]

Hi Magdalena,

Looks like you’re right in the thick of it now. Seeing the mental stories in past and future is one thing, but seeing that even the thoughts right now are just stories too is quite another, isn’t it?

It definitely feels "thick". And, yes, re stories - although it makes perfect sense conceptually, it is still trippy.

Yeah, but WHO is stuck?

Exactly! The feeling of self is so dense, so assertive. It blows my mind how it fluctuates.

WHAT is actually unpleasant?

I am not sure how to answer this. Just can’t pinpoint it, feels confusing.

When looking directly, is there really an experiencer separate from the sensation, or is there just raw experience happening, no owner?

I’ve looked into it quite a bit over the last two days. There is no experiencer, the “me” claims the experience with a delay, a split-second delay, but it is still clear that the raw experience doesn’t need “me”. No owner. The habit is strong, I have to intentionally “catch” that gap between the raw sensation and the “me” jumping on it.

But can you actually find a “me” doing that, or is there just rejection happening, by itself?

Wow… rejection just happens. Same-same applies to desire/rejection/sensation/emotion/thought – all of what arises, no matter how “me” labels them.

What if instead of trying to get unstuck, you just let the stuckness be exactly as it is — without fighting it, without needing it to change? (as if there was any choice either way LOL)

“Working” on it. It is clumsy and somewhat forceful, requires a lot of concentration. I hope that it will get easier. It sounds contradictory, forcing the “without fighting” part, but this is how it feels at the moment – a lot of presence and attention to weed out/question the automatic “me” responses.


With gratitude,
Sol

[Magdalena]

Hey Sol,

Good to hear from you.

Wow… rejection just happens. Same-same applies to desire/rejection/sensation/emotion/thought – all of what arises, no matter how ‘me’ labels them.

If there’s no owner, who exactly is "working" on this?
Who is the one hoping it will get easier?


If there’s no doer, there’s no "working on" anything. Just things happening, unfolding, as they do. Or not?


If rejection just happens, if sensations just happen, if everything arises on its own - then what’s left for "you" to do?
Is there any role for "you" at all?

[Magdalena]

Hey Sol,

How's it going?

[Sol42]

Hello Magdalena :)

I haven't realized how much time passed since the last message! Wow... Since then things felt intense. Trying to see no doer, no owner in everything that happens, sliding into doer-ship/ownership ALL THE TIME. The temperature got above freezing here, I went for a long walk in a nature preserve yesterday. Sunny, warm (relatively LOL), incredibly beautiful, isolated. The mind didn’t shut up for a minute! Looked at it as just happening. Looked at both rejection and acceptance as just happening. Felt like push and pull all the time, no surrender. I know no one is there to surrender, nothing to surrender, yet it was torturous. Today – less so. Irritation came up at work today, and at the same time – a sort of curious excitement about the phenomena. For a second, there was no ownership, clearly and naturally. How one stays in this gap? I know, one doesn’t LOL! Want to laugh and cry at the same time.

If there’s no owner, who exactly is "working" on this?
Who is the one hoping it will get easier?

Exactly! Someone who is suffering and labels experiences while being a bunch of labels, itself.

If there’s no doer, there’s no "working on" anything. Just things happening, unfolding, as they do. Or not?

Yes, this is clear. I THINK that I practice by paying attention, by staying aware. But is it really my choice? Snapping out of “gone with the thought” mode into presence/mindfulness is as much “my” doing as naturally waking up from sleep. I don’t choose when to go offline or come back online when I meditate, when I do dishes, when I talk to people.

If rejection just happens, if sensations just happen, if everything arises on its own - then what’s left for "you" to do?

Nothing is left to do.

Is there any role for "you" at all?

Ok, there is some confusion here. The knee-jerk response was “No role for “me”, yet there is a role for the Sol character – everyday functioning”. But is it true? Isn’t the Sol character just happening like everything else? Am I just trying to mask “me” as “Sol” and by this little trick, grasp for agency? Am I confused about the nature of personality (what's the difference between the "individuality" of a tree and "individuality" of Sol?)? Does the fear of "disappearing" make me compartmentalize "me" to "save" "me"?

With gratitude,
Sol

[Magdalena]

Look here, Sol.

What you're chasing is a total gift. There just is no other way to see it.

It is a gift, which means it simply drops into your lap, unsolicited and undeserved.
There is no way you can make it happen, just as there is no way you can make it NOT happen. It clicks when it clicks - when circumstances align (or maybe that is too much of a story anyway).
And the funniest thing is it's ALL there all the time, however weird this may sound.


What it means is that you/Sol TRYING to invoke it is as pointless as it gets.

Which means that you can literally turn your back on all of this, and simply LIVE the life as it presents itself moment to moment. You've "seen" enough to do so.


The way I see it, there are two options on the table right now:

1) press on with the trying and striving, and feeling it's
tumultous and torturous and shit; keep spinning the stories of Sol's suffering and what not; struggle to stay "in the gap" (what bloody gap? You seriously think anything depends on your "gap"? What if you'd never heard about gaps and shit, eh?); and so on. Your belief in and repertoire of "spiritual" methodologies never ceases to impress me. No kidding.

OR

2) quit any ideas of what it should be that Sol needs to be experiencing, or how, or when, and simply LIVE: get irritated at work; enjoy that walk without any purpose or expectation; come "online" or "offline", or mid-line; or eat those effing cupcakes if you like, and relish every bloody moment of it all - like an animal, without a sense of guilt (what bloody guilt, if there's nobody in control? LOL)



Mind you, I'm not suggesting that the choice between the two options is Sol's to make. Of course it's not. But it won't hurt to be aware of where you stand.


Sure, the above may not sound nondualistically-correct and all. I could go on bullshitting you with questions you have already seen the answers to.

Like for instance:
What actually makes "Sol" any different from the wind blowing, a bird flying, or a tree growing? What makes it a "someone" rather than just more happening?

Or:
Is "Sol" really a thing, or just a collection of patterns, memories, and habits — no different from how a tree has its own shape, branches, and way of moving in the wind?

Or:
Is anything missing in the present moment as it is?


But I won't do that. There is no point, and you know it. Yes, these words are being said to That Which Knows It.


Let me know how this lands.

[Sol42]

Hello Magdalena,

Thank you for the colorful message. It landed well.

I don’t even know what to say, to be honest. I understand that what I am chasing is a gift, and there is no way I can make it happen or avoid it. I agree that the choice of one of the “options” isn’t mine, although I don’t see them as two separate things: I do simply live, periodically, and I do go into frenzy, confusion, pushing, trying - periodically. To drop seeking is as much my choice as to awaken (or not). If you are suggesting to ease off the gas – fair enough. I can “try” LOL. It’s been much quieter here since I got your message.

I wish I could share photos. Right after reading your reply, I came upon a tableau in my living room: my big orange cat sound asleep next to a book with “AWAKE”, in big font, on the cover. It was perfect :).

I seriously have nothing else. I’ve been “sitting” with it for two days, waiting for some kind of idea/response, but I got nothing, total blank. Just a ton of quiet.

With gratitude,
Sol :)

[Magdalena]

Hello That Which Knows It,😉

I don’t see them as two separate things: I do simply live, periodically, and I do go into frenzy, confusion, pushing, trying - periodicall

y.
That's right - they are, in fact, NOT two. 😃😃😃

my big orange cat sound asleep next to a book with “AWAKE”, in big font, on the cover. It was perfect :).

Totally love this ROFL
Perhaps you can send the pic in a private message? 🐈💭💤

I’ve been “sitting” with it for two days

LOL

waiting for some kind of idea/response, but I got nothing, total blank. Just a ton of quiet.

Can any idea or response be more perfect than this? ⛩️