Re: I'm ready
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2024 5:59 pm
Hi Michele,
How are you doing, are you ready to continue with investigating?
With love,
Rowena
How are you doing, are you ready to continue with investigating?
With love,
Rowena
Liberation Unleashed Forum The Gate
https://liberationunleashed.com:443/nation/
https://liberationunleashed.com:443/nation/viewtopic.php?t=9559
Please look/feel into the above quote.It means there is no separate self from oneness. That we think we are a separate being with our own actions, thoughts and experiences. It is a hard concept to grasp, yet there is nothing to grasp.
The calmness of oneness is where we already are and it is the seeking that takes us out of it. How does that happen?It's difficult for me not to be a "doer" yet I want to relax into the calmness of oneness, which, ironically, is where we already are, but yet here I am, seeking still.
When I first read this again, I got immediately anxious and had the thought “I don’t have time for this shit” and then thought “if you don’t do it, your guide will leave you and you will have nothing left to try” I go back to the idea that I understand the concept, but don’t experience it.Looking back to what your wrote in the beginning:
It means there is no separate self from oneness. That we think we are a separate being with our own actions, thoughts and experiences. It is a hard concept to grasp, yet there is nothing to grasp.
Please look/feel into the above quote.
How does that passage resonate with you when you read it now?
This is where the idea of “I” is just a concept. And that autonomous self is a lie, that all my actions and thoughts are just happening with no free will. This is so difficult for me to grasp. I’m guessing that is my fear of letting go into oneness. But when I look into this, No, it is all an idea. We have this body and this life and we put the label of “I” onto it. We put all the concepts onto all the actions.Can a separate, independent, autonomous self be found other than as a thought or concept?
Because if I am not a separate, independent, autonomous self, what is this body of flesh and bones walking around? What are the thoughts that arise that only pertain to my individual experience? The decisions I make just happen? The planning I do is just arising? My actions are nothing more than automatic movements? Those thoughts are what makes it hard to grasp. Gosh, I feel snarky today about all this. Ugh.What makes this a hard concept to grasp?
Yes, I can see this is a belief, but what is beyond the belief? I think that is where the fear lies.Can you see that this is a belief?
They just arise, but I put the label of “My brain is doing the seeing, hearing, etc” Then I realize that the hearing happens THEN I say I am hearing after the fact. But if no one is hearing, what is this experience? What is this “person?”LOOK into the five sense gates for evidence of an "I" : Seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching/feeling.
Is there an "I" that sees, hears, smells, tastes, feels or do those wonderful arisings simply seem to happen?
Consider the visual field and say out loud to yourself:
"I am seeing", and now........ "simply seeing"
Which of the two feels freer?
I think we have been so conditioned into the “separate I” that it feels like death if we let that go. We create a problem so we can find a solution. The ego needs to stay alive. We always need the next thing, etc.“Seeing” feels much freer.
The calmness of oneness is where we already are and it is the seeking that takes us out of it. How does that happen?
YesTake a moment and sit comfortably, eyes open or closed as you prefer. Take a few deep breaths.
Are there any thoughts arising in this moment?
Did you do anything to make those thoughts appear, or did they appear effortlessly? No, they just appear.
Notice the thoughts impersonally; simply, thinking happening.
YesAre there any sensations or emotions arising?
YesNotice how they, too, are arising effortlessly.
This is easier for me. I can just sit and allow ‘hearing to happen’Notice any sounds arising, sound happening effortlessly
Let the sound be without identification.
Well, considering I haven’t experienced the calmness of oneness yet, I can’t tell if it has been disturbed.Has the calmness of oneness, your true nature without the self-contraction and thought, been disturbed in any way with these arisings?
I would like to present a slightly new angle for you to look at. Instead of using "I" all the time, we can sometimes use the phrase "There is / was awareness of....." This will create some distance for you from the identification entanglement of using "I".When I first read this again, I got immediately anxious and had the thought “I don’t have time for this shit” and then thought “if you don’t do it, your guide will leave you and you will have nothing left to try” I go back to the idea that I understand the concept, but don’t experience it.
Yes, but rather than the word concept lets keep to thought, its more simple.This is where the idea of “I” is just a concept.
Im sorry I gave you the exercise about truth/lie. I think it was misleading. Lets forget the word lie and use the word illusion instead. The autonomous self is an illusion, it is not what it seems to be.And that autonomous self is a lie, that all my actions and thoughts are just happening with no free will.
Yes, it would be, under the present system that has been working under the illusory assumption that there is an autonomous, independent self or "I" in charge of the show then this can bring up sensations of fear. Letting go into oneness is a thought that the mind cannot get its thoughts around!This is so difficult for me to grasp. I’m guessing that is my fear of letting go into oneness.
Yes, there a lot of thoughts, ideas, assumptions etc. about life. We have a body for sure, but look closer, what is a body exactly? What comprises it? The outer skin, the internal organs, skeleton, structures, cells, microbiome, it is an ever-changing process that we take to be a solid thing. The mind does this with everything, nice and tidy and easy to understand.But when I look into this, No, it is all an idea. We have this body and this life and we put the label of “I” onto it. We put all the concepts onto all the actions.
Because if I am not a separate, independent, autonomous self, what is this body of flesh and bones walking around? What are the thoughts that arise that only pertain to my individual experience? The decisions I make just happen? The planning I do is just arising? My actions are nothing more than automatic movements? Those thoughts are what makes it hard to grasp. Gosh, I feel snarky today about all this. Ugh.
A belief is a thought that is identified with. It is part of the defense mechanism that has been created in order for us to survive.Yes, I can see this is a belief, but what is beyond the belief? I think that is where the fear lies.
Wonderful, yes! You say no one is hearing......but hearing is happening, effortlessly, isn't it. Does this experience need to be looked at and examined closer, unless you are an ENT doctor or a neurologist, can you allow for hearing to simply happen? Yes, I know you can! Hearing happens to persons, to dogs, to cats, anything with a body and a brain to process the sound waves.They just arise, but I put the label of “My brain is doing the seeing, hearing, etc” Then I realize that the hearing happens THEN I say I am hearing after the fact. But if no one is hearing, what is this experience? What is this “person?”
Yes, so true. The ego thinks it is being got rid of and it wants to stay alive, but the ego is not a thing...it is a developmental process of thoughts and feelings, neuronal activity. There is nothing to get rid of, only entertaining the idea that this ego, self, "I" that is not a thing is not what it seems.I think we have been so conditioned into the “separate I” that it feels like death if we let that go. We create a problem so we can find a solution. The ego needs to stay alive. We always need the next thing, etc.
I can see that you jumped straight into paying attention to the content of your thoughts and all the things that they were telling you you should do. This is normal, especially since life has been so busy for you.Did you do anything to make those thoughts appear, or did they appear effortlessly? No, they just appear.
Notice the thoughts impersonally; simply, thinking happening.
I get stuck when a thought arises about something I have to do. “I have to pay that bill” and then I do the action. That is just arising? All my actions just appear? It seems so strange to me. Even when I say “thinking happening” I still have an action to do.
I enjoy this exercise and I would like to keep doing in over the next day or so. I've dont it a few times and I can feel myself soften each time, but I don't want to just rush to the next thing. I am noticing the feelings of desperation arise that say "if you do it right, you'll "get it" and you'll see. and then the fear as I allow the fear to arise. (no tigers) I love they way you explained not using "lie" but rather it's real, just not what it seems and the illusion is nothing to be afraid of.Sit comfortably, let your eyes stay open. You can put on some music if you like. Take a few deep breaths.
Let all the content of thought float by, however tempting it might be to hold onto one.
Imagine them floating by as little trails of smoke.
Perfect!I enjoy this exercise and I would like to keep doing in over the next day or so. I've dont it a few times and I can feel myself soften each time, but I don't want to just rush to the next thing.
A little correction to point out here.I am noticing the feelings of desperation arise that say "if you do it right, you'll "get it" and you'll see. and then the fear as I allow the fear to arise. (no tigers)
Yes, thanks for the feedback, I don't think I will use the exercise with those words anymore.I love they way you explained not using "lie" but rather it's real, just not what it seems and the illusion is nothing to be afraid of.
What a wonderful little correction to this pattern. I have become so aware of just how often I do this. Learning to just be with the sensation is so different, but I get the difference!A little correction to point out here.
You talk about 'feelings of desperation' arising that say "if you do it right.....
Can a feeling think or talk?
Is there awareness of simply being, effortlessly. Yes / No ?
Yes. Although when I became aware of breathing, I noticed I tried to control it. lolIs there awareness of breathing, effortlessly. Yes /No
Yes. Difficult to not attach to them. Just to let them appear and leave is challenging.Is there awareness of thoughts arising, effortlessly appearing. Yes / No ?
Yes. There was some difficulty with the word "appearing" for vision. As if I expect things to appear out of nowhere but they are already here. "there is a couch here" nothing "appearing" It could be that when I actually set my eyes on something, it appears in my visual field.Is there awareness of a visual field of colors and shapes effortlessly appearing. Yes / No?
Yes. sound is so simple for me to just be aware of effortlessly.Is there awareness of sounds arising, effortlessly. Yes / No?
yes. I am learning to separate sensation/emotions from thoughts.Is there awareness of emotions or sensations arising. Yes / No?
I am starting to see this. Still not sure what it is that is aware.Can you see that you can simply be aware and that this awareness is unchanging.
I believe I am beginning to be aware of this awareness, however faint. I have so many thoughts everytime I try to rest in awarness. It is a process to just be aware of those too and not follow them ad nauseumAll the content is in flux, ever-changing, but awareness never moves.
Awareness is our natural state, prior to all the ever-changing complexities of life.
Are you able to get a feel for resting in awareness?
It takes time to install new habits!What a wonderful little correction to this pattern. I have become so aware of just how often I do this. Learning to just be with the sensation is so different, but I get the difference!
Which feels more contracted, a) what you have written above? or,Yes. Although when I became aware of breathing, I noticed I tried to control it. lol
Yes, it takes practice.Yes. Difficult to not attach to them. Just to let them appear and leave is challenging.
Can you accept not knowing what it is that is aware?I am starting to see this. Still not sure what it is that is aware.
Maybe "control" was too strong a word. I guess fixated on my breathing is a better term. There was an acute awarness of each breath and how I was able to "breathe on purpose" as opposed to just breathing. I didn't feel any sense of contraction. I noticed I still "was just breathing" but it seemed as if I was breathing, but it was still just happening.Which feels more contracted, a) what you have written above? or,
b) "When there was awareness of breathing, there was also noticing (awareness) of trying to control it?"
How did it feel when there was trying to control it?
Was there a thought: "I must try and control this breathing?" or
Was trying to control it simply happening as some kind of reflex?
Did sensations of contraction arise?
this will take some more practice. a lot of thoughts that arise are "doing thoughts" things I have to do. I think keeping busy is definitely something I use to not sit in difficult feelings that may need to arise and be felt. Sometimes I don't even give myself the chance to say "thinking happening" before I notice myself doing the action (and they are very rarely things that are priorities that need to be taken care of immediately) A few times I was able to repeat the thought and let it dissolve. Yes, self-critical thoughts arose quickly. "you suck at this, you have too much pain in your body to release, just give up, peace isn't yours to have" etc. Yes, a contraction in the body. a tightness in my core area and a desire to shake my hands (which I did to help move some energy) the sensation of tightness arose and then dissipated.Think of thoughts as pop-ups arising on a screen. Practice watching them arise, trying to catch your attention.
Make sure that there is nothing that actually does need your attention as a priority!
Watch the thoughts arise and say: " Thinking happening."
If a thought does get grabbed on to, then hold on to it and repeat that thought again and see what happens.
Is it followed by another thought and then a whole string of thoughts? or are you able to look at the original thought and then let it dissolve ?
Notice any self-critical thoughts about this practice. A self-critical thought will always point to a contraction in the body!
Imagining this experience as a baby seems so beautiful, relaxed, and peaceful. I resonate with that. I can soften into that not-knowing and just experiencing. It is so lovely. It is brief, but I can get tiny glimpses of what that must be like for a baby. To just be and experience.Can you accept not knowing what it is that is aware?
There are different names given to awareness, for example, consciousness.
There are also ideas about what comes prior, consciousness, or awareness.
Right now, I would like you to think of a baby in the first few months after birth.
It knows no names, or concepts. It is simply aware of sounds, shapes, colors, smells etc. happening in its surroundings.
No identity has been developed that could allow thoughts to arise such as "I am aware".
Simply, awareness of sounds, shapes, colors, smells, sensations etc.
This sounds good, keep playing with this.Maybe "control" was too strong a word. I guess fixated on my breathing is a better term. There was an acute awarness of each breath and how I was able to "breathe on purpose" as opposed to just breathing. I didn't feel any sense of contraction. I noticed I still "was just breathing" but it seemed as if I was breathing, but it was still just happening.
this will take some more practice. a lot of thoughts that arise are "doing thoughts" things I have to do.
Congratulations that you have seen how much diverting happens in order to avoid difficult feelings. This is a kind of automatic, self-soothing mechanism, which has really served us in the past, but now it is time to see through it (which you have done) andI think keeping busy is definitely something I use to not sit in difficult feelings that may need to arise and be felt. Sometimes I don't even give myself the chance to say "thinking happening" before I notice myself doing the action (and they are very rarely things that are priorities that need to be taken care of immediately)
Great! :)A few times I was able to repeat the thought and let it dissolve. Yes, self-critical thoughts arose quickly. "you suck at this, you have too much pain in your body to release, just give up, peace isn't yours to have" etc. Yes, a contraction in the body. a tightness in my core area and a desire to shake my hands (which I did to help move some energy) the sensation of tightness arose and then dissipated.
Beautiful! And this is what can be called our original nature, or our natural state of being.Imagining this experience as a baby seems so beautiful, relaxed, and peaceful. I resonate with that. I can soften into that not-knowing and just experiencing. It is so lovely. It is brief, but I can get tiny glimpses of what that must be like for a baby. To just be and experience.