yes, sounds good? I also want cross the gate to be solid ground, not shaky ground and I also want to have no questions or doubts.
There is a recognition of no separate and small 'me' , just life playing - but only when paid attention to. Only when something asks 'is there a 'you'? Majority of the time, just life playing and not noticing whether a separate me is there or not. Shouldn't it be obvious at all times if awakened?
Wonderful. :) What we need to do now is to define what solid ground is. It can be different than imagined.
What we're doing is verifying. Checking. Testing reality. We're looking everywhere for a tangible self, the image the brain conjures up moment-to-moment. The question we're working with is: "Does this self exist inherently?" So then you look, and you look again. Each time the answer is the same. Eventually, after beating this up a bit, comes the realization that this is just a fact. That the self is a figment of imagination.
And this is how it is unshakeable. No matter where 'you' are or what 'you're doing', this simple check reveals the same thing again and again. Eventually, the neural pathways in the brain, those which have been firing in the exact same way for years, relax to reflect reality. The belief becomes less and less prevalent.
So, the seeing when checking is instantaneous. The integration can take longer. That's why it seems to be there only when looked for right now. It's a noticing that's happening. But have you also noticed that it's not only a validation of truth in the present moment, but it's easy to see that
this has always been this way. There has never once been a self at all.
Look right now in the field of vision and keep checking. Is there anything blocking the view or the seeing? Is there anything stopping or starting hearing? When putting a hand to the desk, is there anything blocking the sensate experience? These are the ways to check throughout the day.
As far as I know, i have not said I agree with you, if I didn't agree. Do you have anything specific in mind, so I can re-check?
Nope. Just checking. ;)
I will try to explain and see if this might be what you feel is the holding back.
Sometimes I can't tell the difference in what has been deduced with thinking and what is known experientially...they get so close together. sometimes it seems as I answer your questions, it is just thinking answering, not a real experience, but a deductive thinking, and then at the same moment, slip into a something that is indescribably not thinking, just experiencing.
This is perfect. The discernment makes all the difference. At first this seeing is intellectually based because we are working with words and concepts to 'unhook' a concept. So it's a bit tricky. My task is to get you to see through the self concept by prompting questions (thoughts). It's pretty naturally going to lead to your thinking about it first. But it's the constant checking (experience of reality) that this is actually about. Keep going
there. Always go to direct experience.
This whole process has been filled with lots of those moments and it seems to be enough. I am filled with a trust that all is well. maybe its enough to have that trust....that is a great relief..
but.......if someone ask me 'am I liberated?' I don't know the answer to that. I would lean more toward answering 'no'
If I ask you 'Are you liberated?', would you say 'yes, definitely'?
and if I ask you 'If I keep looking at these questions honestly, will I be able to answer "Yes, i am liberated, definitely?'
if that is possible, then I want to keep going until, I can answer for sure 'yes, this is liberation.'
This depends upon the definition or notions of liberation. If you asked me, I'd say that I'm liberated, yes. But that's a paradox because there's no me. Let's just say that there is an unshakeable certainty here that there is no separate self, and that every time reality is checked, it's validated. And I'm checking right now.... Within view is a computer screen, a plant, some lemons on the desk, pictures, dust, and a couple of crumbs from breakfast. ;) But there is absolutely nothing blocking or impeding the view. There's nothing there BUT the view. It's deliciously empty of a demarcation or dividing line between the body and the objects. It's a very seamless view.
There is always more to see, however, as this is a
Living realization. Each moment is fresh and so each brings the opportunity for a new 'selfing' thought to appear, and for a seeing through to happen (or a falling away of that thought). So liberation is ongoing even though the initial recognition is swift.
I think also, what was realized in my previous post, is that maybe I am looking for awakening from the dream, in the same way one does when lucid dreaming, And so have a preconceived idea of what that feels like. it feels like suddenly you know its a dream and any character that you identified with is not you and none of it is real. It can still be fascinating, because it is so creative and intricate and yet you know it is just a product of mind activity. That is what I am expecting to be the litmus test of awakening. You mentioned before that awaking just happens and we don't wake ourselves, and I definitely agree with that. Evidence is there every morning when waking.
so, maybe I just wait in this wonderful pool of trust for the waking to happen.
So what I am saying is that it is not yet like lucid dreaming, and I am expecting that is what it should be.
Isn't it already like that? Take a look. It's simply not noticed when the 'selfing' thoughts come up.
but is lucid dreaming like liberation?
Possibly. Play with that, but don't lean too heavily on it.
I am happy to hear you would be happy to stick with it until all questions are answered. I also am willing to stick with it until all questions are answered.
I am reminded of when I was trying to help my husband see one of those magic eye books where you look at a picture of seemingly random shapes and colors and you squint and un-focus your eyes and suddenly a 3 diminutional picture pops out that is backlit with bright light and colors. No matter how many hints I gave and tried to help, he just never got it. Sometimes he thought he got it, and would ask 'if it was like such and such' but I could tell he hadn't got it because when you see it, there is no mistaking or wondering. its obvious. is liberation like that....is there no mistaking it?
again thanks for your patience and insight..... I take your words as words from god......but don't worry, I won't drink the coolaid.
love, susan
I believe this inquiry is very much like the magic eye book scenario. Notice, though, that even after the 'magic' is seen the first time, it still takes a good look to see it again, right? It's just that now, you know how to do it. ;)
Please keep asking any questions which come up, but try to stay with direct experience. Use the 'checking' method throughout the day today/tomorrow and let me know how it works out.
Enjoy.
Valarie