I have a pain in my face with Spirituality, I’m going home.

[Truthfull]

Ok. 👍🏼

[Truthfull]

“ Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?”

The stream does not select its direction. This is caused by the 1000 things, some are the barriers in its way. The hardness of the ground. The water that makes up the stream. The weather, the amount of water effecting its speed and direction. The steepness of the hill. The wind, the ability of the ground to absorb water, Ect. There is no actual stream apart from. We must decide what we see into things to see a stream.

[Elad]

“ Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?”

The stream does not select its direction. This is caused by the 1000 things, some are the barriers in its way. The hardness of the ground. The water that makes up the stream. The weather, the amount of water effecting its speed and direction. The steepness of the hill. The wind, the ability of the ground to absorb water, Ect. There is no actual stream apart from. We must decide what we see into things to see a stream.

Exactly! Now answer all questions in the Stream Exercise. Moving forward please answer all questions in every exercise given, except if its explicitly stated that this is not necessary.

[Truthfull]

“ 1. Can you find anywhere where Denis autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?”

The hand rubs the face because the face calls for it. Then .001 sec later Denis says, My face is itchy. That feel nice. It’s the wizard of OZ.

I was not ignoring the tasks. This one was/is a head recker. I feel like a dog chasing its tail. I’m sure Denis will make an appearance, he is here somewhere. I keep looking expecting. But I can’t find him. I squeeze my nose and say, here I am, but what caused that, did I create that thought? I am thoughts right now.

[Elad]

“ 1. Can you find anywhere where Denis autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?”

The hand rubs the face because the face calls for it. Then .001 sec later Denis says, My face is itchy. That feel nice. It’s the wizard of OZ.

I was not ignoring the tasks. This one was/is a head recker. I feel like a dog chasing its tail. I’m sure Denis will make an appearance, he is here somewhere. I keep looking expecting. But I can’t find him. I squeeze my nose and say, here I am, but what caused that, did I create that thought? I am thoughts right now.

You are right on the brink it's good! Keep looking and keep letting it sink in that you are not finding, that you don't know what you are and what you think you are is just that: a thought, a belief, however strong. Let that sink in!

Please write a sequence of numbers: 1, 46, 3, 22... For each number notice how it comes up, what is in control of the writing of the numbers, the thoughts, etc. Relax and look closely. What is seen?

[Truthfull]

I note that the mind tries to guess the number I’m writing. Sometimes it guessed wrong. As I wrote 11, it guessed 49. Then the next number written was 49. So that made me thinking the mind has some control to pick. There was a tendency to write numbers in order as it was easier. 1,2,3,4,5,6, etc.
When I write fast, the mind can’t guess the numbers and the writing is a bit squiggly. This fast writing is stressful to do.

As I write gently, the mind call out the number as I write, but which comes first? I can write before thinking and be surprised about the number. Most of the time it’s a close partnership. I can also think numbers and then write them. This is the easiest in action.

[Elad]

I note that the mind tries to guess the number I’m writing. Sometimes it guessed wrong. As I wrote 11, it guessed 49. Then the next number written was 49. So that made me thinking the mind has some control to pick. There was a tendency to write numbers in order as it was easier. 1,2,3,4,5,6, etc.
When I write fast, the mind can’t guess the numbers and the writing is a bit squiggly. This fast writing is stressful to do.

As I write gently, the mind call out the number as I write, but which comes first? I can write before thinking and be surprised about the number. Most of the time it’s a close partnership. I can also think numbers and then write them. This is the easiest in action.

Good. Now look: whatever the mind predicts or chooses in advance, where does that come from, what decides that?

Really look closely and don't take a belief for an answer, even if it seems like common sense. Really really look. Where does it come from? Is there a control over what the mind predicts?

And even if the mind initiates some sequence with predictability - where did the decision to do that come from?

[Elad]

I note that the mind tries to guess the number I’m writing. Sometimes it guessed wrong. As I wrote 11, it guessed 49. Then the next number written was 49. So that made me thinking the mind has some control to pick. There was a tendency to write numbers in order as it was easier. 1,2,3,4,5,6, etc.
When I write fast, the mind can’t guess the numbers and the writing is a bit squiggly. This fast writing is stressful to do.

As I write gently, the mind call out the number as I write, but which comes first? I can write before thinking and be surprised about the number. Most of the time it’s a close partnership. I can also think numbers and then write them. This is the easiest in action.

Good. Now look: whatever the mind predicts or chooses in advance, where does that come from, what decides that?

Really look closely and don't take a belief for an answer, even if it seems like common sense. Really really look. Where does it come from? Is there a control over what the mind predicts?

And even if the mind initiates some sequence with predictability - where did the decision to do that come from?

You are still mixing up thinking/analyzing and looking/observing. But we will get past that with a mixture of patience, kindness and persistence and sincerity and honesty above all.

[Truthfull]

I don’t know where the number come from and no, their is no control of what is picked. Or to say it another way. It all comes from silence.

[Elad]

I don’t know where the number come from and no, their is no control of what is picked. Or to say it another way. It all comes from silence.

Good! You see that you don't find a controller/separate self/Denis the doer, and dont have control. That's the key here. Let that sink in.

Silence is a "pointer-word" that might serve meditation for you or such, that's fine. For this investigation however, it will be most helpful if you don't put a concept on your not finding anything. Just stay with the fact that you don't find anything choosing or controlling, no Denis the doer, and that whatever ideas you have about a you that chooses, controls, succeeds, fails, knows, doesn't know, sees doesn't see, are fictions.

Continue to the "sense of self exercise".

[Elad]

?

:)

[Truthfull]

Hi, working on it now. Been a busy few days with family.

Denis

[Truthfull]

Explore ‘Sense of Self’

When I do the exercise. I find it hard to find the sense of self. Yet, thought says I’m separate from objects around me. This of course is thinking. There seems to be just being.

[Elad]

Explore ‘Sense of Self’

When I do the exercise. I find it hard to find the sense of self. Yet, thought says I’m separate from objects around me. This of course is thinking. There seems to be just being.

Right, so you do you find anything real that correspond to the the sense of self in direct experience, or not, is it only a beliefs and sensations? When you see you don't find let that sink in, let it be, feel.

Thoughts of separation will not stop and are not supposed to stop. Thought and language is by nature separating and limiting, and this is part of human functioning in the world. Our purpose here is to see what is your direct experience and what is just thoughts and labels that might be useful for practical purposes, but no more.

When you say being, what are you reffering to? If you were to try to explain or point to being so that a seven years old child will understand, how would you do that?

[Elad]

Denis, its been a few days without touch space. I feel that staying true to the initial commitment to touch space every day - and say in advance if a deviation from that is needed/wanted - is important. It is important for the inquiry itself. And it is important because respect, sincerity and integrity- inside and mutually - is the foundation of this. Please let me know what is going on. Also let me know if there is something I am missing?

Last time you didn't write one day you said it was because you were uncertain. If that is happening now, or happens in the future, what is best is to write daily anyhow and say so, like "I don't feel clear on this and that, not sure what to write". This process does not call on you to know more then you do or feel differently then you do. It only calls on you to stay in it openly, and keep attending to the questions and answer as best you can, no more no less.

Last thing. I had the thought that maybe I should invite you to share more about your experience of silence. How does it feel to be in touch with it?

Kindly,
Elad