Ok, what is the substance to you that you feel? What makes it up? Whereabouts in the body is it located? How does it make its presence felt?but it still feels like there is a substance to "me"
In reality, is there such a thing as "a chair"?like a chair or a dog would be considered a thing/a something or some being
It feels like there a mass of something in my chest, main body area. I have to look at it to see what makes it up. It comes up when I think about there being no me, and when I look for a me. Although it feels like a substance that's there, I have to look at it to if there's a 'who" or "what" or "me"ness to it.Ok, what is the substance to you that you feel? What makes it up? Whereabouts in the body is it located? How does it make its presence felt?
Sounds like fear. I could be wrong though.
It feels like there a mass of something in my chest, main body area. I have to look at it to see what makes it up. It comes up when I think about there being no me, and when I look for a me. Although it feels like a substance that's there, I have to look at it to if there's a 'who" or "what" or "me"ness to it.
It's always in the chest area. It's not constant unless I think about it. I only notice it when I think about it. I'll have to look at what is the "me" ness in it.Is this "substance" always in the chest area? Is the feeling of me constant? Or does it move around, and sometimes disappear , or at least you dont notice it?
This "me-ness", what is the me in this?
I guess the sense of substance in the chest area is always in the chest area, but is the sense of "me" always in that area? or can it move around?Yes, It's probably fear. The feeling is there when I think about me.
It's always in the chest area. It's not constant unless I think about it. I only notice it when I think about it. I'll have to look at what is the "me" ness in it.
Does this tell you anything about the sense of me?It's not constant unless I think about it
Yes, this is good. These stories that are told about you , you start believing them, they define you, as you say. Look at these stories. Are any of them true?One think that came to me briefly yesterday is the feeling that there are stories that are told about "me", e.g. stories that were told/are told that define "me" or defined/define the "me-ness", the "I", and they're not true, e.g things like I'm a nice person, or I'm a good driver. I'm not always a nice person, etc. so saying those stories and using them to define a "me" as was done when I was a child and as I keep living with and believing and picked them up to form a "me" isn't correct. I have to look at this more to get a better sense of it and what it looks like. I keep looking for an "I" behind things.
I have to keep looking at the stories, what are all of the stories and are any of them true (from what I saw yesterday, none of them are, but I only saw a couple of them yesterday, so I'll keep looking).Does this tell you anything about the sense of me?
What do you think the fear relates to, if it is in fact fear? What thoughts and feelings are behind, or causing , the fear?
I think the sense of me is probably only there when I pay attention to it. I have to look at this.
Fear: If it is fear (and I'm sure there's fear somewhere there), I think there's a fear of letting go of my "self" even though my "self" isn't real. There's a fear of change and what will happen if I let go. What happens if I stop believing the stories I tell myself about "me"?
Yes, this is good. These stories that are told about you , you start believing them, they define you, as you say. Look at these stories. Are any of them true?
If you have all these stories about you, and believe them, what happens when these stories are challenged?
Briefly, I think the fear when the stories are being challenged is a fear of being found out, a fear of being found to be a fake (e.g. I'm not always a nice person.). I'm also afraid of letting go of the "I" because I don't know what will happen if I let go of it (and looking at it, it feels like this is going to go around in circles to a confusing point where I see that "I" don't exist, and "I" am afraid to let go of the "I", and you can't have it both ways, so you have to do something.).Look into the fear, both the "mass of something in my chest", and the fear that is produced when the stories of you are challenged. Fear is a natural protection mechanism.
The fear is a natural response to the threatening thought. Let it come, dont push it away. Its there to protect you? In reality, though, is there a you to protect? Can this thought of "ceasing to exist" do anything to you? Will you cease to exist if you see through the lie of self?
I have always said I wanted this (to see no "self", get through the gate, etc.). What I noticed today is that I ("I"?) don't want it. Note: this doesn't mean I'm stopping the looking at all, or that I don't want to do this process with you anymore. It just means that there seems to me to be a big "I" part of me that doesn't want to find out the truth. I have to look at this.
There's a fear of ceasing to exist, like a fear of not even continuing to breath if I let go or whatever, like the body will just stop being and doing. I know this won't happen because the body breaths, etc. on it's own with no one controlling it but I think there's a fear of it happening.
Do you decide to let the thoughts and emotions out? Or do they happen in response to stuff? This is a good analogy, and its good to look at nature and see how stuff happens, seemingly without any selves doing it( do cows, dogs, spiders, fleas, amoebas have selves?)
Cow and a calf: The cow doesn't decide to let the milk out when the calf puts it's mouth on the udder. The muscles in the calf's mouth working on the udder make the milk come out.
I agree that theres a few stories there,some hypotheticals and analogies. It seems like you are still trying to arrive at an answer by thinking about things, rather than looking. But theres some good stuff too. It appears that you are investigating deeper, looking at what is true and what isnt. Question everything.Okay, the above is probably just waste of time stories.
It really can't since my body isn't under my control, since my body is going to do what it does no matter what I do, or what happens to me (It breathes when it breathes, and it will die when it dies.).Can this thought of "ceasing to exist" do anything to you?
No, because you can't protect a nothing. If thoughts, feelings/emotions and sensations arise on their own, then there is no one and nothing behind them so there is no one to protect. I have to keep looking at this (thoughts, feelings/emotions and sensations arise on their own) to see it more and more.is there a you to protect?
No, they come out on their own. They come out in response to stuff that happens.Do you decide to let the thoughts and emotions out?
Yes, I thought of a banana. I think it happened because your brain just reacts to a sound, to a request being made. There was no "me" anywhere in the process.Dont think of a banana. Did you think of a banana? Why do you think it happened? Was there a you anywhere in the process?
No. It's just a sound, and it happens so fast you don't even know it's happened--You've paid attention to the sound before you even realize you've paid attention to it. If you've paid attention to the sound before you even realize you've paid attention to it, then you're living your life on looking back at what happened, and you're not being with things as they happen, which means there's no "you" there in the middle of things, and if there's no "you" there in the middle of things, then who's looking back at things and where is the "you" in all of this--is there a "you" in all of this? Me talking out loud to myself again.In that sound, is there a you anywhere?
Keep looking !!! Stop thinking !!!!
No. It's just a sound, and it happens so fast you don't even know it's happened--You've paid attention to the sound before you even realize you've paid attention to it. If you've paid attention to the sound before you even realize you've paid attention to it, then you're living your life on looking back at what happened, and you're not being with things as they happen, which means there's no "you" there in the middle of things, and if there's no "you" there in the middle of things, then who's looking back at things and where is the "you" in all of this--is there a "you" in all of this? Me talking out loud to myself again.
Yes. Difficult to do maybe, but keep working at it. Observe things as they happen. Observe how thoughts come up spontaneously about the things you observe. Remember, thoughts are "things that happen" too.Me thinking out loud to myself: Yes, maybe I do want to analyze everything out. Things happen really fast (like hearing a sound), stop taking things apart and analyzing them, and just observe them as they happen (pay attention fast as things happen fast).
There's no me to pay attention to the sound. The sound just happens and it just gets received by my ears and then my brain interprets it. My brain reacts to it (emotions like I don't like that. It's too loud, etc. happen. I get mad because the noise/sound of someone talking interrupted my focus on this, etc.). There's a sound and then an emotion comes up (sound comes first, then the emotion, I have to look for the doer/me/I in all of this--Is there a doer, is there a doing that is being done by someone?--me asking myself these questions to look at.).Is there a you to pay attention to the sound? Can you find the experiencer of the sound? At the time the sound happens, is there a sound, and an experiencer of the sound? A lot of the above paragraph is thoughts about sound, and what it means if .... Instead, really look at what happens when sounds are heard. Ignore all thoughts, all deductions, and just look.
Do you have direct experience of the sound getting received by the ears and then interpreted by the brain? Or is that just thoughts about what happens, ideas and concepts that you have been taught?
There's no me to pay attention to the sound. The sound just happens and it just gets received by my ears and then my brain interprets it.
Is there a you asking yourself all these questions? Or is that on automatic too?My brain reacts to it (emotions like I don't like that. It's too loud, etc. happen. I get mad because the noise/sound of someone talking interrupted my focus on this, etc.). There's a sound and then an emotion comes up (sound comes first, then the emotion, I have to look for the doer/me/I in all of this--Is there a doer, is there a doing that is being done by someone?--me asking myself these questions to look at.).
If you were doing the analysing, then surely you could just stop ? So stop. You cant? Why not?
I like the examples you've sent, like listening to a sound, think of a banana, etc. as they are helpful in seeing things (like that there's no "me").
I'll keep working on just being aware of things as they happen without analyzing them.
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