Hide & Seek...

[Bluejay]

I might not have expressed that the best way. By ‘feeling bad’ I meant ‘suffering’ – in the Buddha sense of suffering – not just having a bad day etc. It was just such a stark difference that I thought it was worth mentioning.

Seeing there is no inherent self doesn't eliminate suffering either :)

It's the first step into awakening where the process begins.

Okay, it feels like the goalposts moved a bit. So what should I be doing? Waiting for emotions, old patterns, and habits to pop up?

You lost me a bit with, "It has nothing to do with spaciousness or anything else." What’s it got to do with? And how do I do that?

Sorry if I’m not understanding what you’re trying to say.

You look for where the inherent self is. Who or what is it that is going to do something?

Are you making decisions? How do decisions happen?

***I wrote the above earlier, and I’ve been pondering. I don’t think I’ve let go of the story of ‘me’. I can clearly see that ‘I’ don’t exist and that the story is a fantasy etc. But I’ve never actually just let go of the story, or let go of ‘me’. I remember reading that it disappears the moment you see that it’s fake, and I must of just stuck with that assumption.

If I try to let it go, that’s when feelings of fear and sadness start welling up in my gut… Maybe that’s what I’ve neglected to do? (...or subconsciously avoided...)

What is the fear and sadness about?

Also, can you go fully into the fear and sadness? Drop any labels of even fear and sadness and let the sensations expand and do whatever they want. Just feel for however long it takes (15-60 minutes per day for days, weeks, months).

[Aldous65]

You look for where the inherent self is. Who or what is it that is going to do something?

Are you making decisions? How do decisions happen?

I still see an impulse arising from nowhere and then the mind claiming that 'I' decided to act. 'I' still seem to be a combination of thoughts/ideas that give the impression of a personal identity that is thinking/doing. If I had to pick which part was 'real' I would choose perception. If I'm anything I feel like the pure perception perceiving everything that seems to be happening. Or the awareness that is aware of everything that's happening.

Is there something else I should be seeing?

What is the fear and sadness about?

Also, can you go fully into the fear and sadness? Drop any labels of even fear and sadness and let the sensations expand and do whatever they want. Just feel for however long it takes (15-60 minutes per day for days, weeks, months).

I felt into the fear and sadness and it was a fear of dying. It was a bit evasive at first, but I felt into it and after about 20-30 seconds of intensity it just abruptly stopped. It then felt clear and fine and nothing has arisen since.

[Bluejay]

I still see an impulse arising from nowhere and then the mind claiming that 'I' decided to act. 'I' still seem to be a combination of thoughts/ideas that give the impression of a personal identity that is thinking/doing. If I had to pick which part was 'real' I would choose perception. If I'm anything I feel like the pure perception perceiving everything that seems to be happening. Or the awareness that is aware of everything that's happening.

Is there something else I should be seeing?

What is awareness in direct experience? Is there awareness that is aware of things? Are there two separate things?

Keep inquiring into this sense of personal identity. Be as precise as you can be, really zooming in on how it is constructed.

Do you find a personal identity, or only thoughts referring to one?

Do you find a sense of a person, or only sensations labeled my thoughts?

I felt into the fear and sadness and it was a fear of dying. It was a bit evasive at first, but I felt into it and after about 20-30 seconds of intensity it just abruptly stopped. It then felt clear and fine and nothing has arisen since.

Alright :)

So what happens now when you let go of the story/me?

[Aldous65]

What is awareness in direct experience? Is there awareness that is aware of things? Are there two separate things?

No, there’s no awareness in direct experience. There’s just what is. No separation, no things.

Do you find a personal identity, or only thoughts referring to one?

Just thoughts.

Do you find a sense of a person, or only sensations labeled my thoughts?

It’s only sensations bundled together to give the impression of a ‘me’, and to continue the story of ‘me’.

So what happens now when you let go of the story/me?

At first I felt nothing, it was clear. But then I noticed a finer/subtler sense of ‘me’ which felt a little scary to touch. I felt into that and it was like a toddler’s tantrum! “Why do I have to let this go?! Why me? Why do I have to do this!?” I stayed with it, and as soon as I really connected it said, “that’s no fun if you’re gonna do that” and it disappeared. I realise it was just the mind turning sensations into words but it made me laugh! :)

I’ll keep looking for subtler senses of ‘me’.

[Bluejay]

It’s only sensations bundled together to give the impression of a ‘me’, and to continue the story of ‘me’.

Do these sensations give the impression of a me?

How do they do that?

At first I felt nothing, it was clear. But then I noticed a finer/subtler sense of ‘me’ which felt a little scary to touch. I felt into that and it was like a toddler’s tantrum! “Why do I have to let this go?! Why me? Why do I have to do this!?” I stayed with it, and as soon as I really connected it said, “that’s no fun if you’re gonna do that” and it disappeared. I realise it was just the mind turning sensations into words but it made me laugh! :)

Nice :)

Yes, stay with the stories and allow them to express and then feel everything, just as you're doing.

[Aldous65]

Do these sensations give the impression of a me?

How do they do that?

No, the sensations are just sensations. It's the mind/thoughts that create the 'me'. There's a movement that's noticable just before the sense of 'me' comes into awareness. It's sort of a gathering or bringing together of 'something' that creates the feeling/impression of a 'me'. It sort of rises up and pulls things together.

There was a release of built up energy this morning when I was looking at how the 'me' is created. It happened from inside the boney part of my skull just above the neck. It seems to have changed something, but I'm not sure what yet. :)

Yes, stay with the stories and allow them to express and then feel everything, just as you're doing.

Nothing has come up in the last few days. But I will focus more on releasing 'me' and facing no 'me' and see if more comes up.

[Bluejay]

No, the sensations are just sensations. It's the mind/thoughts that create the 'me'. There's a movement that's noticable just before the sense of 'me' comes into awareness. It's sort of a gathering or bringing together of 'something' that creates the feeling/impression of a 'me'. It sort of rises up and pulls things together.

Yes, exactly.

And what is mind in direct experience?

But I will focus more on releasing 'me' and facing no 'me' and see if more comes up.

We can dive into the specifics more. Maybe that will help.

Is there such a thing as me to be released in the first place?

You might say that you're releasing the sense of me, but what is this sense?

[Aldous65]

And what is mind in direct experience?

There is no mind, everything just is.

We can dive into the specifics more. Maybe that will help.

Is there such a thing as me to be released in the first place?

No, it’s just an illusion. An illusion that’s become a habitual way to see the world.

You might say that you're releasing the sense of me, but what is this sense?

Just habitual ideas and concepts. I think you’re trying to get me to realise that the ideas/concepts/self/etc aren’t real so why am I fighting against them? Just let them go, ignore them, stick with what's here and now. I can feel that is close to happening, but there’s something blocking/preventing it.

.

[Bluejay]

There is no mind, everything just is.

When you or someone says there is a mind, what components in direct experience are used?

Here's a list for your convenience:

Direct Experience is:

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

No, it’s just an illusion. An illusion that’s become a habitual way to see the world.

Same here, what components are involved in letting go of something?

This one may be a bit more complex, but just notice what happens when you do this thing we call letting go.

Just habitual ideas and concepts. I think you’re trying to get me to realise that the ideas/concepts/self/etc aren’t real so why am I fighting against them? Just let them go, ignore them, stick with what's here and now. I can feel that is close to happening, but there’s something blocking/preventing it.

There has to be an experiential shift. You can see it intellectually, but the key is to keep looking and to stay there.

It can eventually feel like you already know this so you don't keep looking, or you just look for a minute and nothing happens so you stop. But keep looking for 15-30 minutes each time.

What is it that is close to happening?

[Aldous65]

Hi Henri,

I hope all is well. :)

I had a few things happen in the last couple of days and I would like to run them by you. The first happened when I inquired about what was stopping me from fully accepting what I’ve seen about thoughts and the sense of self etc. The sticking point turned out to be whether the ‘sense of self’ could be the part that the ‘creator’ made that learns/evolves/reincarnates etc. So by not ‘living in’ that sense of self we could be bypassing the path and prolonging the journey.

Looking into that; I realised that if impulses precede thoughts & actions then I can’t do anything anyway…… I can’t choose to do something different. Something is doing ‘me’. This released that sticking point and that part of ‘me’ seemed to fall down my spine towards the back of my chest. I then realised that I’m just the part watching all the sensations and thoughts as they happen. I can’t do anything with the thoughts/sensations except be aware as they appear and do their thing.

For 24 hours that felt great and something had definitely released, but I went to bed that night still feeling like something was irritatingly incomplete. A bit frustrated I said to myself, “Forget about anything you’ve read or heard and just see what is here NOW, what is this…..right here, right now!” And it dawned on me. It’s all mind, it’s all just fluff in our thoughts! None of it is real except for what is tangible right now. The bed, the walls, the sensations…now. Everything else is just fluff, just mental imaginings, fluffy nonsense. (I guess that could be reduced to just sensations because that’s all we know of bed/walls/floor, but they were my thoughts at the time.)

In an instant, that realisation reduced everything down to the simple, obvious, tangible ‘now’. This allowed me to notice an incredible felt frequency/energy/sense. (I don’t know what to call it!) I’ve felt it before, a few times in the past, and wondered if this was what we were searching for. You could probably call it our true nature, but it feels more like God, or the ground/base of our being. I wish I could describe it more but I’m a bit wordless… :)

.

[Bluejay]

In an instant, that realisation reduced everything down to the simple, obvious, tangible ‘now’. This allowed me to notice an incredible felt frequency/energy/sense. (I don’t know what to call it!) I’ve felt it before, a few times in the past, and wondered if this was what we were searching for. You could probably call it our true nature, but it feels more like God, or the ground/base of our being. I wish I could describe it more but I’m a bit wordless… :)

This all sounds excellent.

You did some very good investigating.

It seems like there was a clear shift in perception/perspective?

How does it feel? (if you have more to say)

Can you now say with 100% certainty that there is no inherent self? (remember this doesn't mean the absence of location, center, emotions going up and down, etc)

[Aldous65]

It seems like there was a clear shift in perception/perspective?

How does it feel? (if you have more to say)

It feels very clear, very simple. It also feels like a weight has been lifted, a relief. One thing I forgot to mention was the humour. When I saw that everything was just mental stories, and in no way real, it was humorous! I didn’t laugh too much (the journey was too long for that!) but it did make me chuckle a bit. :)

Can you now say with 100% certainty that there is no inherent self? (remember this doesn't mean the absence of location, center, emotions going up and down, etc)

Yes, the self has no fundamental reality. It’s purely mind stuff. :)

.

[Bluejay]

It feels very clear, very simple. It also feels like a weight has been lifted, a relief. One thing I forgot to mention was the humour. When I saw that everything was just mental stories, and in no way real, it was humorous! I didn’t laugh too much (the journey was too long for that!) but it did make me chuckle a bit. :)

Yes, it can be funny! :)

Yes, the self has no fundamental reality. It’s purely mind stuff. :)

Great! So let's check a few things:

Is there a thinker thinking thoughts?

What about an experiencER experiencing sensations, sounds, and so on?

What is the body? Can the body do something?

Is there inside/outside?

Do you make decisions? Can you decide to go and drink some tea/coffee now?

What is awareness?

What is different and what is the same in everyday life now compared to before this conversation?

[Aldous65]

Is there a thinker thinking thoughts?

What about an experiencER experiencing sensations, sounds, and so on?

Is there inside/outside?

Do you make decisions? Can you decide to go and drink some tea/coffee now?

No, to all the above.

What is the body? Can the body do something?

From direct experience there isn't a body. From the relative perspective, it's a vehicle that responds to impulses and perform functions. (impulses that arrive from unknown origins)

What is awareness?

From direct experience there isn't awareness. From the relative perspective, we wouldn't know we exist without awareness. And I can't find a substantial 'me', so you could say that awareness is what we are. But again, from direct experience there isn't awareness.

What is different and what is the same in everyday life now compared to before this conversation?

Day to day activities are the same, everything is normal in that regard. But there is a greater lightness to life now, and a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. Life also seems less serious and menacing than it used to, even though all the same things can still happen. A smile is never too far away from my lips and there is a general sense of calm and relaxation.

.

[Bluejay]

Day to day activities are the same, everything is normal in that regard. But there is a greater lightness to life now, and a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. Life also seems less serious and menacing than it used to, even though all the same things can still happen. A smile is never too far away from my lips and there is a general sense of calm and relaxation.

That's wonderful. 👍

You seem clear, and there seems to have been a clear shift.

Would you like to answer the final questions to wrap up our conversation here at LU?

Or is there something that is still unclear that you would like to explore?

And while you answer those, here's the potentially last pointer:

Stream Exercise

Imagine for a moment a scene, one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high.

Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side.

Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground and so on?

Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

1. Can you find anywhere where 'you' autonomously intervene into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are color preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look cool for a certain person) etc.

Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life?

Can you find someone somewhere?

3. Can anything be found for which 'you' are responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

Enjoy :)