See the sought

[tia22]

This experience is just another layer of “me”. Full of thoughts “I had an awakening”, “everything is different”, “I want to go deeper”. None of this is even real. It’s all of the same stuff masquerading as something fresh and different. I don’t know where to orient. Orientation is a thought too. It feels like complete obliteration is the only option. And that feels terrifying. What am I putting my trust in? What is even here to trust anything?

[Bluejay]

Yes exactly. It's just another set of thoughts trying to grab attention.

And that feels terrifying. What am I putting my trust in? What is even here to trust anything?

If you need to orient to something, just feel the aliveness that is here, if that makes sense?

When it feels terrifying, look behind/beyond the fear, is there something there?

[tia22]

When it feels terrifying, look behind/beyond the fear, is there something there?

Yes, there is something here that is aliveness itself. I will try to orient there.

I will attempt the stream exercise a little bit later.

[Bluejay]

Sounds good!

Re: aliveness - just feel the sensations there. Seeing through the separate self doesn't mean that all sense of self drops, although there can be glimpses of it, so this aliveness can be a good resting place if things feel too disorienting.

And as the system gets used to this, things calm down.

[tia22]

The noticing that the perceiver is also a thought has kind of thrown me. Something about that realization started a thought train that makes me doubt my previous experience of “seeing through the person”. Maybe the “awakening” was thoughts telling me I saw through the person and I believed it, until it was noticed that the person is still alive and well, inundating, even creating my entire experience. I feel confused and defeated.

Now, I do understand that all of the above is all in thought. But it somehow feels real, and like there needs to be a hypervigilance to prevent being pulled in. Or once in, to be pulled back out.

[Bluejay]

Now, I do understand that all of the above is all in thought. But it somehow feels real, and like there needs to be a hypervigilance to prevent being pulled in. Or once in, to be pulled back out.

No need for hypervigilance. Is there someone that can be hypervigilant?

Is there something about this process that is not automatically happening?

As one layer is seen through, the next one becomes more apparent. This is not a one and done deal, so all is going as expected :)

Maybe the “awakening” was thoughts telling me I saw through the person and I believed it, until it was noticed that the person is still alive and well, inundating, even creating my entire experience. I feel confused and defeated.

Note this story of getting it and then not getting it. What is the feeling in the body that this story is distracting from?

The noticing that the perceiver is also a thought has kind of thrown me. Something about that realization started a thought train that makes me doubt my previous experience of “seeing through the person”.

Can you say more about this?

I would imagine seeing that there is no perceiver would only reinforce that there is no doer?

[tia22]

Henri,

Everything is different today. Yesterday it seems the mind was grasping and holding onto… I don’t know what. Last night it was seen that I am not any of that, while being all of it. It does not feel personal and nothing special at all. It is everything I have ever been. Simple and undeniable

[tia22]

Thank you for holding space for me yesterday and trying to help me make sense of the internal hurricane inside.

I will get to the stream excercise today :)

[Bluejay]

That's great to hear.

It's a good example of how sometimes giving things a few days to settle is wise on the awakening path.

[tia22]

I would imagine seeing that there is no perceiver would only reinforce that there is no doer?

I think the initial confusion and frustration was the minds attempt to distract from incredible fear underneath. I quickly became overwhelmed with fear of what it means to have no one here to even perceive. Complete emptiness- void of the experiencer. The mind can not understand what that would be like, so it naturally freaked out. Well, I am mind/identified, so I freaked out. Felt the fear and cried. And you are so right- I have noticed a pattern of impulsivity and reactivity that I need to look at- it would be wise for me to let things settle before jumping to conclusions as this progresses!

[Bluejay]

Ah, yes, that makes sense now.

There can be initial freaking out. Often the mind calms down a bit with a bit of information and knowing that this is all normal, and to give things time to settle.

Looking forward to the stream exercise!

[tia22]

1. Can you find anywhere where 'you' autonomously intervene into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

I am not sure if I am understanding this correctly, but my interpretation of the question is if I see myself as a separate entity that appears to come in and out of life/situations, or if I seem to be one, continuous with the flow of life. Did I understand this correctly?
Honestly, I feel like I am a separate entity who moves through life rather than being one with life. Like there is time and activity and people whom all seem to be moving independently of each other.
I’m going to wait for clarification on this question before I move on to the next

[Bluejay]

I am not sure if I am understanding this correctly, but my interpretation of the question is if I see myself as a separate entity that appears to come in and out of life/situations, or if I seem to be one, continuous with the flow of life. Did I understand this correctly?

Yes. In other words, is there something independent from the stream of life ('you') that is choosing with its free will what to do.

Honestly, I feel like I am a separate entity who moves through life rather than being one with life. Like there is time and activity and people whom all seem to be moving independently of each other.
I’m going to wait for clarification on this question before I move on to the next

This is all to be expected. The exercise is not really about feeling like you are one with everything, but about examining if you can find a separate self that is making decisions.

Does that make sense?

[tia22]

This is all to be expected. The exercise is not really about feeling like you are one with everything, but about examining if you can find a separate self that is making decisions.

Does that make sense?

Yes, this makes sense! Thank you for the clarification.
If I think about it, it does appear that I am making decisions and have control over what I do. But thoughts are telling me that. We have already determined that there is no thinker- the thoughts just arise from seemingly nowhere and dissolve back into nothing. If I inquire into a “doer”, one can not be found outside of thought. This is making me emotional. The power of the mind feels all-encompassing sometimes- like I can’t escape it. Though I’m not sure “who” this thought of not being able to escape is referring to.

[Bluejay]

This is making me emotional. The power of the mind feels all-encompassing sometimes- like I can’t escape it. Though I’m not sure “who” this thought of not being able to escape is referring to.

Notice that these are just the next set of thoughts.

- All-encompassing
- Can't escape

And so on.

It's rarely enough to see once that there is no thinker. This has to sink in experientially. Each time there's a feeling of making decisions, become curious: What is it that is making decisions? Where is the feeling of making decisions?

Feel free to complete the stream exercise (answer all questions), and we can continue to exploring the sense of self more thoroughly.