ok

[Indira1]

Even though, when looked at clearly there is no one experincing. I see no one, whats happening now feels personal..confused

[Luchana]

Hi Indira,

Yes, it is very clear, that there is no chooser, controller or decider...I see this and yet in talking to others, "I" statements still come up and sometimes, there is still talk about this body deciding and choosing, when deep down inside, i am not not believing that...Yes, when i look it is chrystal clear that there is controller and decider....

Let's look at the idea that there is a body which decides and chooses.

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:


Does the body have a weight or volume?

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?

If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?

If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
Look very carefully, especially with the last question.

Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

That there is just experience happening without a central experiencer?
yes, when really looking this is seen...Yesterday, as a result of what was happening in this story of indira, Experience of sadness, aloneness and unahappiness arised. feelings of uncomfortableness is happening now. Not sure how to deal with this, but to just watch and see how it plays out...i would like to go deeper, not sure what that means and yet i am very open to it

This is common, can you look Is there an expectation that some feelings like sadness, aloneness, uncomfortableness will stop happening?
Why would they?
"Go deeper" is a pointer to be totally intimate with the feeling in the moment when it is arising as it is arising.
It can be difficult (because there is a massive resistance when something which is not pleasant show up)
What I find immensely helpful is to sit with someone and reflect together.
This is how the system learns

Today there is a meeting (6 pm French time)
and also Saturday we are having an extended one dealign with doubts..
If you are willing to join let me know.

Sending love,
Luchana

[Indira1]

Thank you for these questions, I am gonna take some time to process these questions and get back to you..Sending you lots of love

[Luchana]

Take you time, no rush

Sending love,
Luchana

[Indira1]

Let's look at the idea that there is a body which decides and chooses.

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:


Does the body have a weight or volume?

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?

If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?

If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
Look very carefully, especially with the last question

[Indira1]

Let's look at the idea that there is a body which decides and chooses.

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:


Does the body have a weight or volume?

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

With eyes closed and really looking, I see no weight or volume
In actual experience no shape or form, only when looking in mirror

[Indira1]

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside

Is there boundary between the body and the clothing? NO there is not
when really looking NO, there is no boundary between the body and chair
When looking no inside or outside, trying to think of a word to describe this answer, Intamacy is what resonates..Well description is hard..the chair, now appears close, here

[Indira1]

If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?

If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
Look very carefully, especially with the last question

No inside or outside
A noun describing the visual, what describes the visual? thought does
When really looking, i would say, sense perceptions, hearing, seeing, tasting, smelling, sights, even touching, sensations, within the body, is experience of the body

[Indira1]

breathing, emotions arising, and going

[Indira1]

I wanted to add, all day long, I see thoughts arise and label and there is hearing from the mouth, thoughts with labeling

[Indira1]

.

[Indira1]

I missed these qustions, i would like to answer
This is common, can you look Is there an expectation that some feelings like sadness, aloneness, uncomfortableness will stop happening?
Why would they?
"Go deeper" is a pointer to be totally intimate with the feeling in the moment when it is arising as it is arising.
It can be difficult (because there is a massive resistance when something which is not pleasant show up)
What I find immensely helpful is to sit with someone and reflect together.
This is how the system learns

Honestly, I said or i convinced myself that I had no expectations, but in the process of doing this with you, in the very begining I did. I did feel that once was a discovery of no self, i would no longer feel sadness, aloneness uncomfortableness. Yes, i did feel that all emotions such as these would no longer be there. I really like when you asked, will stop happening....there is something that has triggered something. Thank you.. Through this question, I realised, i have been running away from dark emotions all of this life.Yes, i have had experience in the 12 step program which requires vigorous honesty and yet, I always hated dark emotions. Well lets just say, thoughts have been encouraging this body mind, to compare to others like Eckarte tolle and byron Katie, as if these thoughts know what is really going on..Lol!
You asked, Why would they? most of the thoughts are against, me realising, sitting with dark emotions is the way to freedom..And even that is ok too

[Luchana]

Hi indira,
you did a very good looking

In actual experience no shape or form, only when looking in mirror

When looking in the mirror - do you see something else than colours and shapes?

Look here:

Is it the body which is experiencing or the body is also experienced?


Sending love,
Luchana

[Indira1]

do you see something else than colours and shapes?
Crazy, when looking in the mirror, i do not see an I, me, or Indira, the seeing is nothing. The mind labels it as Indira, shape, judgement, or compliments the body...just thoughts appearing and labeling the body

[Indira1]

s it the body which is experiencing or the body is also experienced?

Good question..i had to sit with that one for awhile, when really looking, i would say the body is experienced. Saying that the body is experiencing is saying, the body is real, someone doing it. Does that make sense?