There is no one in control.

[so40]

Henri, my response will be delayed for next two days. Hope it is ok. I will continue with the experiments.
S

[Bluejay]

Sounds good!

[so40]

What happened? Report back what you discover.

Hi Henri, Followed the exercise as best as I could. The body wanted to slowdown, there was some tiredness/pain, and this preference to rest. Only do what is absolutely needed. So, I followed the advice and took a break.

The body definitely has preferences and chooses quickly. There is this immediate recognition to do or not do something. Then thoughts will start questioning, arguing for or against the choice. Thoughts and body are so interconnected. Heaviness or the impact of thoughts have reduced a lot! There are reactions in the body, but there is a distance to it. There is a lot of sadness and lightness. If I can locate a spot that has the sensation it is in the chest. There are thoughts around this, they just cycle through different scenarios.

[Bluejay]

The body definitely has preferences and chooses quickly. There is this immediate recognition to do or not do something. Then thoughts will start questioning, arguing for or against the choice. Thoughts and body are so interconnected. Heaviness or the impact of thoughts have reduced a lot! There are reactions in the body, but there is a distance to it. There is a lot of sadness and lightness. If I can locate a spot that has the sensation it is in the chest. There are thoughts around this, they just cycle through different scenarios.

Yup, very good. The body moves through 'life' without needing thought.

Let's explore this one...

Imagine for a moment a scene, one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high.

Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side.

Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground and so on?

Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

1. Can you find anywhere where 'you' autonomously intervene into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are color preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look cool for a certain person) etc.

Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life?

Can you find someone somewhere?

3. Can anything be found for which 'you' are responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?

Enjoy :)

[so40]

1. Can you find anywhere where 'you' autonomously intervene into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

No. Choices arise, from habits, experience(memory), and circumstance.

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are color preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look cool for a certain person) etc.

Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life?

Can you find someone somewhere?

For breakfast I chose to have waffles, checked the fridge, waffles were found and toasted. If the waffles were not available, I will choose bread. The choice just arises as thoughts. Then it becomes my choice.

I do not know where the autonomous entity is! The body has preferences, which is learned, conditioned. Just like the stream, body moves through life.

3. Can anything be found for which 'you' are responsible – if so responsible to what and for what?
There is responsibility to complete a task today. Thoughts say you have a choice to either do the task or not do the task. If you take thoughts away the decision happens spontaneously. There is a sense of freedom in this.

[Bluejay]

There is responsibility to complete a task today. Thoughts say you have a choice to either do the task or not do the task. If you take thoughts away the decision happens spontaneously. There is a sense of freedom in this.

Exactly. There is seeming choice, but no chooser.

Can you now say with 100% certainty that there is no self that chooses, thinks, or makes things happen?

[so40]

Can you now say with 100% certainty that there is no self that chooses, thinks, or makes things happen?

Yes, there is no self that chooses! Thoughts say there is a self (a thought) and it chooses! Thoughts just take ownership of choices. Was there ever a choice made by the "self"?

[Bluejay]

Yes, there is no self that chooses! Thoughts say there is a self (a thought) and it chooses! Thoughts just take ownership of choices.

Exactly. If you're clear about this, then we are done here at LU, and you can keep deepening inquiry in whatever way your intuition guides you.

I can give you some resources after some final questions we like to ask.

Do you want to answer the final questions now?

Was there ever a choice made by the "self"?

If there never was a self, could there have been? :)

[so40]

Hi Henri!
Yes, there never was a self, how could it make decisions :)) There is clarity, the thoughts are not taking over me like they used to. The gaps between thoughts are just delicious and the body feels lighter. There are doubts, and the idea of a separate self and others is there, and the fear that this may not last etc. Seen as thoughts. The beliefs are seen from a different perspective, they arise, sometimes with such intensity, but they are seen, felt and then disappear! Nothing is sticking. Again, fear that this may not last!!! There is a lot of sadness, just crying for no reason, I did not experience any bliss the others talk about LOL ... expectations, I guess!

Do you want to answer the final questions now?

Yes :)

Thank you!

[Bluejay]

I'll post the final questions in the next post.

Yes, there never was a self, how could it make decisions :)) There is clarity, the thoughts are not taking over me like they used to. The gaps between thoughts are just delicious and the body feels lighter. There are doubts, and the idea of a separate self and others is there, and the fear that this may not last etc. Seen as thoughts. The beliefs are seen from a different perspective, they arise, sometimes with such intensity, but they are seen, felt and then disappear! Nothing is sticking. Again, fear that this may not last!!! There is a lot of sadness, just crying for no reason, I did not experience any bliss the others talk about LOL ... expectations, I guess!

Yes, usually after the self illusion shifts like this a lot of stuff can begin to bubble to the surface, so now is when the shadow/emotional work begins, which is not easy, but much more enjoyable without a self resisting everything :).

I also highly recommend you keep looking at the self illusion as it will often deepen, but now it's just happening. Effortless effort as they say.

[Bluejay]

Here are the final questions. Enjoy and take your time. Let me know if you have any questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

[so40]

you keep looking at the self illusion as it will often deepen, but now it's just happening.

Would you mind explaining a little bit more about this?

I will look at the final questions and answer soon. Thanks

[Bluejay]

Would you mind explaining a little bit more about this?

I'll answer after the questions, if that's OK, so we can stay focused.

[so40]

I'll answer after the questions, if that's OK, so we can stay focused.

yes understood :)

[so40]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. There is no separate entity called 'I'. There never was.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

The self is a collection of thoughts, memories and an ownership of the sensations. The illusion of seperate self is an energetic experience between the thoughts and the body. The self takes ownership of the decisions, the body and the daily experiences(I am living my life).

For me the energy or the tension in the body was so real and any thoughts will just increase and own this tension. This created suffereing. Then within few days of inquiry with Henri, this tension just melted in the body. It was like a load being lifted off !

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Feels good ! There is this quietness or peace in the background. Thoughts still arise and cause body to react, they do not stick though.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Henri shared a Scott Kiloby video on self-inquiry. It helped me see the connection between thoughts and reactions in the body. After a few inquiries, the body just relaxed.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Decisions just appear. They can be based on prior experience and conditioning. But they just arise and actions are taken. Choosing what to eat for breakfast, a decision shows up based on preference, "I" did not make the decision.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Intention and planning also happen spontaneously. Sometimes there will be a sudden intention to go for a walk. It just appears!

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

There is no free will :) There is no one to have a free will! It is interesting to see how conversations just happen, words just arise and are spoken!

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Choice another illusion! Choices happen based on situations. There may be preferences for certain choices, from memory.
Choice is made spontaneously, thoughts may question the choice, no control in that too.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

There is no control, life just happens, and the body just responds. I had a car breakdown few days ago, If I had control, I would have stopped it from happening. Then certain decisions were made, happened just like that.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

Nothing, they just happen! I have no idea how it works.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Nothing. The self creates this idea of responsibility. The roles we play in life, like the responsibility to take care of a child. Fear/guilt of losing something reinforces the responsibility. The attachments in life also reinforce responsibility.

6) Anything to add?
Day to day life feels lighter. There are thoughts and emotions arising, they are easier to process through, without the concept of "I". Fear is also there, whether this will be unseen, but just a thought.
Thank you for all you do here at LU.