How is this “solidity” experienced in DE??? What are “students” in DE?
Hmmm.....thoughts and labels about people,sensations of sounds, voices, bumping, smelling.
It has definitely occurred to me that if this were a simulation, all of the so called experiences, memories, sensations, feelings, could easily be created, implanted so to speak, like in Rechael in Bladerunner. Memories implanted, etc. No self, except as a shared hallucination.
I think of solidity mostly in the edge cases....soft or hard things...yet I concede that it is just more....sensation.
Is there anything outside of thoughts that believes them, or the believing is just more story?
Believing is just more of the story. Even the story of the seeker started with looking for truth...something to believe in. Now truth seems like just another label. Either it is all truth or nothing. Also both at the same tme.
At which point is there a decision to snap out?
Thee is no decision. It seems to just happen when it happens.
Is there one that makes that decision or does it simply happen, effortlessly?
Also, I agree, effortlessly, at least in this case of snapping out of the story.
Is it different from being sucked into mind movies/ getting lost in thought? If there is nobody to believe, is ”believing in the story” actually happening or is it a story about “believing in the story” (more thought content)?
Seems like I've been daydreaming "a life." There is really not much left to believe in. But you're right, it seems to snap in and out of this state.
So what is it? What is it that is currently identified with thoughts?
More thoughts? Sensation of pressure=fingers typing. Thoughts about formulating these words, happening semi automatically.
What is it that is standing apart from thought and has the ability to disregard them?
It's not really standing apart, nor disregarding, just noticing them happening.
What do thoughts happen to?
Thoughts just happen. Sometimes they are identified with a personal experience.
Is there someone outside of thoughts, being identified with them?
Noone can be outside or inside them for that matter....things are just sort of....unfolding.
Where is the mysterious, unknown, outside entity?
If anything it refers to g_d or atman, buddha nature, etc, the ten housand names for what is trying to be understood by the brain...which is also a story.
Is there a sufferer or a story about suffering??? LOOK!
Suffering isn't happening in this present moment, so it seems all the ideas about a struggle, suffering, even pain, are stories about the past and stories about an anticipated future.
Can a thought do anything (e.g. believe it is a person)?
The belief that one is a person is still another thought. , thoughts don't really do, they just are. Sometimes it seems like the body (more sensations) moves at the behest of thoughts.
Are there solid thoughts that have powers or just thinking fluctuating between silence and loudness?
That's a way of putting it, fluctuating between silence and loudness, yes. Sometimes thoughts are so loud that they seem obsessive. Mostly it happens with thoughts of doom and gloom:(
What are thoughts happening to? Where is this "me"? LOOK!
At this moment all I can find are more thoughts. One of the thoughts is a visualization of a little homonculus in the forehead, which is a funny little fantasy. So no me to be found yet. But still looking.
Just look, what is it that is separate from what is, and trying to figure out how things are?
Nothing can be seperate. Just more thoughts about trying to figure it all out. It's actually getting a little boring going over the same script!
Is there a self or me here, who is separate and isolated from what is, from reality, and thus is in need to understand reality?
There is a story about waiting to meet a great master at the top of a mountain I have yet to climb, but these sensations of a body and thoughts seems to be all there is at this moment. Also a story of blissful sensations to come instead of the aches and pains in the present. But that is seen as another thought story.
Where is this me that reality is happening to?
There are sensations of a body, pressure, thoughts happening, and a story of past and future, but it is all happening in this present moment. That's as close to a me that I can find.
Why is there a need for a looker, writer or doer of any kind? Is life really happening like in language where the structure of a sentence demand a subject doing something on an object???
Looking for a looker is what's happening at the moment. also nowhere to be found. Just looking.
“Writing” happens (actually seeing, feeling, and thinking for actual “writing” or just thinking for a figurative one).
Let’s try something else…First, write what you are experiencing right now using the words “I,” “me,” and “my.” Get right to the point: don’t write about past or future fantasy, just a plain description of here and now – what is happening right now.
Like this:
I am lying in bed. I am hearing the rain. I am typing these words. I am feeling cold. I hear the cat’s footsteps.
Do this for a full ten minutes. Watch the sensations. Are there any sensations of tightening or relaxing? Write out all that is happening within these ten minutes in a most descriptive way. Focus on what is happening around you—sounds, sensations, visual experiences—rather than the thinking process.
I am sitting in class. I am typing at the keyboard. I am watching the movements of the students. I am answering questions. I get up to walk around. I am drinking coffee. I am just sitting here while study hall is going on. I am typing. My fingers are moving across the keyboard. I go into the hallway. The bulletin board is covered in writings. I take a picture of it. I write a hall pass. I am sitting here watching the students do sneaky things they are not supposed to do, like chew gum:) This whole thing feels like my story. I am reading ahead in these questions. I am checking the time to see if 10 minutes are up. They are.
Then, for the next ten minutes, write without the words “I,” “me,” and “my.” Just describe the experience as it is happening at this moment using verbs alone.
Like this:
Waiting for next thought, typing, breathing, blinking. Hearing the rain. Waiting for the next thought. Hearing birds singing.
Again, watch for sensations. Don’t just rewrite what you wrote in the first part, rather focus on the here and now and describe what arises as it arises, keeping it always fresh.
Typing, hearing music, watching dancing, eating a salad, conversing, sending a message, ordering something, walking, sitting, typing again,thoughts about going home, more thoughts about food.
Now compare the two ways of labelling the experience. Is one truer than the other?
If so, which one?
Both ways of labeling the experience are just happening. How can one be truer. If there is only the story of an experiencer then it's just a diffeent way of telling the story of experience happening. But the latter way is more in accordance with DE languaging.
What is here without labels? Do labels affect the experience or just describe it? What were the sensations? Which way of describing felt more natural, more relaxing?
Everything is the same with or without labels. The labels are just thoughts. Which are also happening as part of experience. Labels dont affect the experience. Nor the sensations. I like the second way of describing better actually. It feels like there is no owner of experience.
Have a look. Does a description affect how you feel about what is described? Can you see that thoughts describe and create a story at the same time? Can you see that the word “I” is part of description and not as important as it seems?
Yes! I do see it now. Easy to be lost in thoughts but that is also part of Direct Experience happening. Maybe you could say that direct experience of identifying with thoughts happens also and that is where the sense of me exists!? It doesn't seem to be anywhere else at the moment, which is also sort of everywhere, just localized into the present.
I have tried to answer everything and also to finish in one day. Thank you for keeping the dialog going so well and all your time. I see that you have answered many other requests so you must be busy.
Love
Peter
