Wake up!

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poppyseed
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Re: Wake up!

Postby poppyseed » Wed Oct 11, 2023 8:39 am

Hi Amin
It’s good to have you back
What is the memory ‘made of’?
Feelings based on thoughts
Feelings = sensations + thoughts
So basically, memories are thinking that “causes” sensations in the present moment (or thinking and sensations just appear together and thought talks about a relationship ;))
WHEN does the memory appear?
As an extension of thought
It’s plain thinking that appears NOW
No, however, "others" believe they are all "I"s.
And how is this known? What are others in DE (think apple)? Are there “others” that can do the believing? Can you believe your thoughts?
It's all mind diarrhea!
That is not an answer. Please answer!
During the weekend I read the book The Dreamstate by Jed Mckenna, after reading Ilona Ciunaite's LI book. I am HEARING, SEEING, LOOKING.
So there is still seeking? What are you seeking? What are you trying to improve? Remember this is not about special states but ordinary daily LIFE

Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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BAwake2day
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Re: Wake up!

Postby BAwake2day » Wed Oct 11, 2023 7:01 pm

It’s good to have you back
This "feels" like home!
And how is this known? What are others in DE (think apple)?
Others are a mix of thoughts, memories and sensations presenting in the now.
Are there “others” that can do the believing?
No. Just as Santa cannot.
Can you believe your thoughts?
No. Not anymore! (I never could but did).
So there is still seeking? What are you seeking? What are you trying to improve?
Brilliant observation and challenge. I HAVE been seeking. Seeking for more confirmation, more relevance to this path. The legacy beliefs are fighting for their lives and MORE seeking is an internal effort to shut them up. However, they all are THOUGHTS.
Much Love,

A

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Re: Wake up!

Postby poppyseed » Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:05 am

Hi Amin
And how is this known? What are others in DE (think apple)?
Others are a mix of thoughts, memories and sensations presenting in the now.
“Others” is just a label (thinking) pointing to/coming along with seeing, hearing, smelling :), tasting :) and feeling (sensations). Is the difference clear?
Memories are still thoughts, no different than other thoughts. Just the label “memories” similar to “plans” makes them special thoughts, otherwise still thinking ;)
So there is still seeking? What are you seeking? What are you trying to improve?
Brilliant observation and challenge. I HAVE been seeking. Seeking for more confirmation, more relevance to this path. The legacy beliefs are fighting for their lives and MORE seeking is an internal effort to shut them up. However, they all are THOUGHTS.
Good observation of how the “seeking” is actually not your “seeking” but a new confirmation bias in action – showing how the core beliefs have been challenged (on its own ;) )

So let's review where we are at with the following questions.

How is life these days? What has changed and what hasn’t in normal everyday living. What changes? What stays the same?
What is the biggest difference from before starting this conversation?
Is seeking still going on?
Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?
Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?

Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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Re: Wake up!

Postby BAwake2day » Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:08 pm

“Others” is just a label (thinking) pointing to/coming along with seeing, hearing, smelling :), tasting :) and feeling (sensations). Is the difference clear?
Getting clearer.
How is life these days?
Simple! There is a quiet that is new and unfamiliar. Externally not much different but my awareness and engagement with it all very different.
What has changed and what hasn’t in normal everyday living.
The relationship with life has changed. More outside in than inside out. Equanimity is more present as the lens on existence is not biased by my very finite perspective. I feel more energy, clarity, and calm at times and confusion, and doubt at other times. However, the ability to identify labels and thoughts as what they are has been quite useful. Life goes on daily, events happen, people come and go but the relationship with it all has stabilized. No so many ups and downs.
What changes? What stays the same?
Everything changes! Expectations, concerns, preoccupations, biases, worries, need to plan, and mind babble has all diminished but not disappeared.
The sun keeps rising and setting, birds keep flying, clouds keep rolling in and out. The flow of life keeps flowing.
What is the biggest difference from before starting this conversation?
"I" is no longer or at least less in existence. The connection with life has become more holistic and much more simple. There has been a dramatic disconnect from thought; From most labels that had defined "Amin".
Is seeking still going on?
Not as much and certainly not in the same way. Seeking is more about the discovery of the truth than seeking a path or dogma. The internal battle with the mind causes seeking but awareness of the seeking helps end it.
Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?
Actually, no confusion! However, your reflections on coexisting in a world with others so mired in the illusion of self would be appreciated.
Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?
YES!
Much Love,

A

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Re: Wake up!

Postby poppyseed » Fri Oct 13, 2023 9:11 am

Hi Amin
The relationship with life has changed. More outside in than inside out. Equanimity is more present as the lens on existence is not biased by my very finite perspective. I feel more energy, clarity, and calm at times and confusion, and doubt at other times. However, the ability to identify labels and thoughts as what they are has been quite useful. Life goes on daily, events happen, people come and go but the relationship with it all has stabilized. No so many ups and downs.
Awesome!!!
Everything changes! Expectations, concerns, preoccupations, biases, worries, need to plan, and mind babble has all diminished but not disappeared.
The sun keeps rising and setting, birds keep flying, clouds keep rolling in and out. The flow of life keeps flowing.
Well noted!
Actually, no confusion! However, your reflections on coexisting in a world with others so mired in the illusion of self would be appreciated.
Ha! What “others”, again? Can you experience “others’” thoughts? How is it known that “others are so mired in the illusion of self”? That sounds like YOUR story, right? The “world” is your creation (thoughts). What seems to be “your world,” the totality of your experience of all that is happening, is a creation of language, and words are the building blocks that create the story about it. LOOK! Is there anything wrong with THIS that needs fixing? Improving? How “you” see the “world” is your story, your “responsibility”.
Remember in DE: “someone” talks to “you”= sound (hearing) + thought.
So the interpretation of the hearing is entirely “your” thought, “your” story. Seeing what is there and what is not (LOOKING), noticing patterns is up to “you”
Thoughts will be expressed, "messages" will be spread (but maybe not heard), leaving a mark (like a new virus) or not. Guiding “willing others” might be the new story…
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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Re: Wake up!

Postby BAwake2day » Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:02 pm

Ha! What “others”, again?
Indeed, "THIS", "THEY" seem to be the biggest challenge in this path. Old habits and human interactions rooted in so much societal human-centric, separate identity tugs at this newfound truth. Including marriage. It almost seems incompatible to recognize the lack of self yet coexist with others mired in their separate selves, tugging at all others in their circle. In a way, all this is a great petri dish for exploring through DE how idiotic life has become. Your wisdom on this topic is most welcome.
Can you experience “others’” thoughts?
Only through the DE of coexisting with "others". Hearing their words, seeing their struggles and the thoughts that define the friction of it all.
How is it known that “others are so mired in the illusion of self”? That sounds like YOUR story, right?
It does and in many ways it is. Strangers merely become teachers in this approach, however, the immediate family have a stronger influence. trigger a more historic, ego based response.
LOOK! Is there anything wrong with THIS that needs fixing? Improving? How “you” see the “world” is your story, your “responsibility”.
Thank you for this, and yes it is. Buth then, why exist in close relationships that challenge and confuse this responsibility? Is it possible to do both?
Thoughts will be expressed, "messages" will be spread (but maybe not heard), leaving a mark (like a new virus) or not. Guiding “willing others” might be the new story…
This is understood. However, as a relatively new liberated self, so much is clear and obvious in solitude or amongst nature, "others", willing or not create a struggle. All is part of the awareness but boy it gets hard at times.

You sign your posts with "Love". What is Love by Rali in DE? How do YOU mean Love? Is Love not the ultimate label? Does it not challenge the notion of the separate self?

Grateful for you,
Much Love,

A

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Re: Wake up!

Postby poppyseed » Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:36 am

Hi Amin
You seem to not find an “I” but then expect to find "it" in "others"… What is that that sees no “amin” but it sees “others” – “wife”, “friends”… What is it that gets awaken, that is outside of THIS and sees it rightly or wrongly? Are there many THIS’s – one for you, one for me, one for your wife,…? Where do "others" exist/live? Is there space or just seeing? Where is "outside"? Outside of THIS? Where is the border that separates "you" from "others"? LOOK!!!
Are there really “others”? There are hearing, seeing, tasting, smelling, feeling, and thinking (ABOUT others) but are there really others (think apple)?
It almost seems incompatible to recognize the lack of self yet coexist with others mired in their separate selves, tugging at all others in their circle.
Yes it is incompatible – if there is no I how there be others? This is the change in perception that is needed. You saw there is no I in DE. How are “others” experienced in DE? Are they there (existing on their own) at all? Why is an “apple” different from your “wife” in their lack of inherent existence? They are both empty words. When you hear “your wife speaking” is this her voice? When you hear “yourself speaking” is this your voice? What makes one hers and the other yours in DE? Do you have control over yours, does she have control over hers? There are both hearing appearing now with just different labels, right?
Only through the DE of coexisting with "others". Hearing their words, seeing their struggles and the thoughts that define the friction of it all.
Is there actual “friction” or the “friction” is a story? There might be sensations, but is the sensations “friction”-full without the label?
But then, why exist in close relationships that challenge and confuse this responsibility? Is it possible to do both?
The real challenge is to see the emptiness of the whole story – that it is not what it looks like and it’s not based on reality – and then let it go by focusing on what is actually here_now. “Your responsibility” (you can’t do anything as you don’t exist but it happens anyway) is to check what is real and what is not and see all these old patterns that still need to be adjusted to that SEEING.
It does and in many ways it is. Strangers merely become teachers in this approach, however, the immediate family have a stronger influence. trigger a more historic, ego based response.
Do “they” actually challenge/influence or the story ABOUT them "infuences" more story? Check the story, is it true? When you say “ego based response” – what is that? How is it different from “no-ego based response”? Does the "ego" magically appear in those situations? Sensations are there, thinking is there. Whatever the thinking is ABOUT is EMPTY, even if it is about DE. Is that clear? NOTHING in the story is real even the DE labels!
All is part of the awareness but boy it gets hard at times.
What do you mean here??? What is with the awareness again? Are you just agreeing with me without actually seeing what I’m pointing to? Is “awareness” some kind of container?
You sign your posts with "Love". What is Love by Rali in DE? How do YOU mean Love? Is Love not the ultimate label? Does it not challenge the notion of the separate self?
Exactly. “Love” is the recognition that there are no “others”. I don’t have to know “you”, so can express love; and I don’t express it, it is just here appearing as fingers writing “love” by pressing keys :))) What is a “notion of separate self”? How does it appear in DE? Does the sense of self have a location?
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?
Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?
Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?
What is found?

Love :)
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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Re: Wake up!

Postby BAwake2day » Tue Oct 17, 2023 11:53 pm

How I appreciate you Rali! Thank you for the time you invest in this process.
What is that that sees no “amin” but it sees “others” – “wife”, “friends”… What is it that gets awaken, that is outside of THIS and sees it rightly or wrongly?
Old habits, old habitual engagements with a pretend world. the examination internally needs to be applied externally. There is nothing to awaken, The challenge is the DE of others versus the pretend of self. I now laugh when I look into a mirror as I see the labels, the lies, the tethers that are false. Clearly, this applies to everything. In many ways this is clear, sometimes the awareness gets overwhelmed with the BS of life.
Are there many THIS’s – one for you, one for me, one for your wife,…
As you define it, there are no THIS's. It's all labels.

[/quote]Where do "others" exist/live? Is there space or just seeing? Where is "outside"? Outside of THIS? Where is the border that separates "you" from "others"? LOOK!!!
Spot on. These are my mental labels applied by the old "i" in an effort to sustain the false pretend of "life". None of it truly exists just as "I" does not.
Are there really “others”? There are hearing, seeing, tasting, smelling, feeling, and thinking (ABOUT others) but are there really others (think apple)?
There are not "others", however unlike the apple that is static, "others" can and do have an effect on the experience of each moment. The impact is where old triggers and labels happen. But it's becoming more clear and this awareness is the most predominant truth.
Yes it is incompatible – if there is no I how there be others?
Right? I so get this and then a close relationship tugs, demanding to be acknowledged based on the labels and supposed dynamics historically. Hard to tell the wife she doesn't exist! The truth is that a life and commitments were made in the dream state from which there has been an awakening now. While the truth is that all of the past was based on Santa, now, in an awakened state there are disconnects and challenges. The only way forward is in the truth of this work and in an absence of self. THIS Amin, who does not exist is living a conventional life based on an Amin that did. With people who have believed they exisit and come to rely on that mirage, where the two clash are full of labels, thoughts, and stories that are false. How to live genuinely with this with the impact it has on others. Ironically, equanimity reigns through all this.
You saw there is no I in DE. How are “others” experienced in DE? Are they there (existing on their own) at all? Why is an “apple” different from your “wife” in their lack of inherent existence?
No difference at all, other than the apple doesn't fight for its life or label. the wife does. The apple is inanimate, the wife is quite the opposite. Clarity of this settles peacefully in full appreciation of the truth, merely with an apple (wife) fighting for its very existence.
When you hear “your wife speaking” is this her voice? When you hear “yourself speaking” is this your voice? What makes one hers and the other yours in DE? Do you have control over yours, does she have control over hers? There are both hearing appearing now with just different labels, right?
Yes!! (can you please draft a note to her, reminding her of this). Are you married?
Is there actual “friction” or the “friction” is a story? There might be sensations, but is the sensations “friction”-full without the label?
So well stated. I also identified this story and have relinquished it as another story. another label.
The real challenge is to see the emptiness of the whole story – that it is not what it looks like and it’s not based on reality – and then let it go by focusing on what is actually here_now. “Your responsibility” (you can’t do anything as you don’t exist but it happens anyway) is to check what is real and what is not and see all these old patterns that still need to be adjusted to that SEEING.
The emptiness is seen, and acknowledged. just not shared.
Do “they” actually challenge/influence or the story ABOUT them "infuences" more story? Check the story, is it true? When you say “ego based response” – what is that? How is it different from “no-ego based response”? Does the "ego" magically appear in those situations? Sensations are there, thinking is there. Whatever the thinking is ABOUT is EMPTY, even if it is about DE. Is that clear? NOTHING in the story is real even the DE labels!
Amen! Thanks for this
All is part of the awareness but boy it gets hard at times.
What do you mean here??? What is with the awareness again? Are you just agreeing with me without actually seeing what I’m pointing to? Is “awareness” some kind of container?
I am guilty of agreeing with you and being crystal clear here but then losing the clarity mired in the day to day. Your reminders are most helpful. I see, says the blind man.
What is a “notion of separate self”? How does it appear in DE? Does the sense of self have a location?
This was a poorly worded statement. The separate self has no DE, A complete mental structure. The separate self "feels" as though it is the mind. However, the mind/brain WAS the location of the sense of self.
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?
No
Does the sense of self say or communicate anything? If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?
Only thoughts.
Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
Fascinating question!! No!
What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?
Thoughts!
What is found?
Absolutely nothing!

Love ;)

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Re: Wake up!

Postby poppyseed » Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:24 am

Hi Amin

You seem to be agreeing/answering from knowledge (not looking) a lot. This shows up as inconsistencies in your answers…
Hard to tell the wife she doesn't exist!
Well, like I said before, my personal experience in the “guiding story” is that “others” have to be willing to be guided. Is there anything wrong if the story is not a “guiding story” (i.e. telling your wife she doesn’t exist)? What happens with “others” is another story. Your relationship with “enlightened others” or “unenlightened others” is just more story. They are all fairy tales, do you see that? THIS happens and the story is part of it – good, bad, ugly… Without lables describing the story, it is JUST a story.
The truth is that a life and commitments were made in the dream state from which there has been an awakening now. While the truth is that all of the past was based on Santa, now, in an awakened state there are disconnects and challenges. The only way forward is in the truth of this work and in an absence of self.
OK, so what you are saying is that your “enlightening” story is clashing with the “old” story :))) That is exactly the confirmation bias, I was talking about. Remember, thoughts stick to each other like magnets – repelling and attracting. The more old story you have, the more resisting thoughts. The more new story (e.g. story of DE), the more attraction of more DE thoughts. So keep on checking what is DE and what is not, this is the only way to change the story…
THIS Amin, who does not exist is living a conventional life based on an Amin that did. With people who have believed they exisit and come to rely on that mirage, where the two clash are full of labels, thoughts, and stories that are false. How to live genuinely with this with the impact it has on others. Ironically, equanimity reigns through all this.
Can a noun/label/word live any life? Can a word believe that it exists or not? Can a noun be awakened? Can a word make decisions how to approach other nouns? You seem to confuse reality with language. Did “you” decide before how to approach “others” or it just happened? Even in the story you saw that “you” did not make any decisions – it is just cause and effect. Outside of the story (i.e. DE), this is even more ridiculous as there are no others, decisions, happening… just THIS!
You are talking like there is a character “Amin” that does things in the story. Followed by another character “No-Amin” that continues to do things in the story. Does the story actually need a character? Is there a story or just language?
When you say “Amin does this and that”, is there an actor playing “Amin”? How does a character operate? Is there anything that controls the story? Is Spiderman choosing what he is going to do next in the story of Spiderman? Choice is also part of story, and the story is fictional. Take a look at Amin from the point of view of a friend, family member, somebody you never met, a colleague: What can you see? Is it still the same character? Is there really anything playing Amin or the idea of a character is just an illusion/language? And before you say something like “awareness plays the character” :))), is “awareness” like a spirit/witness that makes things happen? How is this observed?
Is there life or lifing? LOOK! Are there any entities/subjects/objects present in actual experience?

How can the character follow a script when there is no time, when it is always now? So where and when is the script unrolling if there is no space and time??? The past as we saw lives only in thought content. Again, do cause and effect exist outside of thought???
The emptiness is seen, and acknowledged. just not shared.
Shared by whom/what?
I am guilty of agreeing with you and being crystal clear here but then losing the clarity mired in the day to day. Your reminders are most helpful. I see, says the blind man.
How can you lose the clarity? It is always here, you just have to LOOK! Looking is a matter of noticing what is already here, not inventing or imagining something that needs a huge amount of energy to sustain. It’s not mental gymnastics, and there’s no medal that you have to go for. This sort of noticing is effortless; attention moves and focuses on different perceptions, different information coming in. Thoughts rush in to label what is being noticed. No special state is required; it’s everyday ordinary business.
This is not about states. How is it possible to "maintain" something when you are present? Present moment is just one present moment, and has anything to do with a duration of a certain state.
Is this clear???
This was a poorly worded statement. The separate self has no DE, A complete mental structure. The separate self "feels" as though it is the mind. However, the mind/brain WAS the location of the sense of self.
Yeah, we talked about the separate self, but what about the sense of separate self (e.g. the character/”Amin”), the one that “feels”? Does it have a location? What are “brain” and “mind”? Do they have a location? Located where? When you start questions like that it all falls apart. The story is seen as funny/empty.

Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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Re: Wake up!

Postby BAwake2day » Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:18 pm

You seem to be agreeing/answering from knowledge (not looking) a lot. This shows up as inconsistencies in your answers…
I agree. I see this and recognize the struggle of being consistent.
Well, like I said before, my personal experience in the “guiding story” is that “others” have to be willing to be guided. Is there anything wrong if the story is not a “guiding story” (i.e. telling your wife she doesn’t exist)? What happens with “others” is another story. Your relationship with “enlightened others” or “unenlightened others” is just more story. They are all fairy tales, do you see that? THIS happens and the story is part of it – good, bad, ugly… Without lables describing the story, it is JUST a story.
Of all your comments this one really resonates. Yes!!!
OK, so what you are saying is that your “enlightening” story is clashing with the “old” story :))) That is exactly the confirmation bias, I was talking about. Remember, thoughts stick to each other like magnets – repelling and attracting. The more old story you have, the more resisting thoughts. The more new story (e.g. story of DE), the more attraction of more DE thoughts. So keep on checking what is DE and what is not, this is the only way to change the story…
Yes! I get this now.
Can a noun/label/word live any life? Can a word believe that it exists or not? Can a noun be awakened? Can a word make decisions how to approach other nouns? You seem to confuse reality with language.
I have noted my confusion with the language as well. THIS use of language is very new and different. I am learning, however.
Did “you” decide before how to approach “others” or it just happened? Even in the story you saw that “you” did not make any decisions – it is just cause and effect. Outside of the story (i.e. DE), this is even more ridiculous as there are no others, decisions, happening… just THIS!
Absolutely! How "liberating", thanks for unleashing it. ;)
You are talking like there is a character “Amin” that does things in the story. Followed by another character “No-Amin” that continues to do things in the story. Does the story actually need a character? Is there a story or just language?
No! There are NO characters, this is all language rooted in causes and conditions.
When you say “Amin does this and that”, is there an actor playing “Amin”? How does a character operate? Is there anything that controls the story? Is Spiderman choosing what he is going to do next in the story of Spiderman?
You're GOOD! It just is!
ake a look at Amin from the point of view of a friend, family member, somebody you never met, a colleague: What can you see? Is it still the same character? Is there really anything playing Amin or the idea of a character is just an illusion/language? And before you say something like “awareness plays the character” :))), is “awareness” like a spirit/witness that makes things happen? How is this observed?
Is there life or lifing? LOOK! Are there any entities/subjects/objects present in actual experience?
Brilliant. We're all merely lifing. Phew. No entities/subjects/objects present in actual experience!
How can the character follow a script when there is no time, when it is always now? So where and when is the script unrolling if there is no space and time??? The past as we saw lives only in thought content. Again, do cause and effect exist outside of thought???
No scripts other than in the pretend of the mind. Thank you for reminding me again and again.
Shared by whom/what?
This is THE rub point. I have clearly created the character of wife to be a catch-all for much of MY experience. There is clarity with most everything else. The wife seems to represent the anchor of the ego. However, the tethers are gradually breaking off, freeing both of us. Thanks for sitting with me during this process.
How can you lose the clarity?
The clarity never ceases, the thoughts distract it but its always there. I truly know this now.
Yeah, we talked about the separate self, but what about the sense of separate self (e.g. the character/”Amin”), the one that “feels”? Does it have a location? What are “brain” and “mind”? Do they have a location? Located where? When you start questions like that it all falls apart. The story is seen as funny/empty.
I laughed as I read this, You are of course spot on.
Much Love,

A

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Re: Wake up!

Postby poppyseed » Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:39 am

Hi Amin
Lovely to see your comments. I can see a shift…
This is THE rub point. I have clearly created the character of wife to be a catch-all for much of MY experience. There is clarity with most everything else. The wife seems to represent the anchor of the ego. However, the tethers are gradually breaking off, freeing both of us. Thanks for sitting with me during this process.
I can give you another exercise to explore “wife”. It would have been weird with “someone” else but “wife” is perfect :)

Touch your “wife” and close your eyes. Are there two sensations there – one of “wife” and one of “you” - or just one “you touching wife”? Is "wife" outside of sensing? Where is the border that marks where sensing ends and "your wife" begin?

Is “wife” outside of seeing, hearing, smelling and tasting :)

What is the difference between seeing an ‘stranger’, seeing an ’enemy’, and seeing ‘wife’ in DE – they are all colour with different thought content, right? How is one colour different from another in DE if all there is to colour is seeing?

It’s not the same approach as the looking for the “I” when it comes to ”others” (e.g. “wife”) as you can’t really see that that they don’t have an “I” – it’s a deduction (thinking). How we approach it from DE is the same way we see there is no “apple” – that apple is a label. How are objects different from ‘others’? Why were objects easier? What about animals? If we have to repeat the same example but with a “person”:
Taste labelled ‘wife’ is known
Colour (visual information) labelled ‘wife’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘wife’ is known (when a person is touched)
Smell labelled ‘wife’ is known
Thought about/of a ‘wife’ is known
However, is a ‘wife’ actually known? (Or is it just a label?) Is there really an ‘wife’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘wife’? Can ‘a wife’ be found in actual experience?
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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BAwake2day
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Re: Wake up!

Postby BAwake2day » Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:15 pm

Lovely to see your comments. I can see a shift…
Phew, I didn't want you to give up on me. Please know that the shift is in full force and there is no going back. I've read in places that this shift can be challenging and it is true but THAT is a label as well. I only seek the truth. At any price.
Touch your “wife” and close your eyes. Are there two sensations there – one of “wife” and one of “you” - or just one “you touching wife”? Is "wife" outside of sensing? Where is the border that marks where sensing ends and "your wife" begin?
Only one sensation whether wife, dog, tree, or apple. Each with its own labels.
There are no borders, merely mental labels that differentiate.
Is “wife” outside of seeing, hearing, smelling and tasting :)
Glad you added the :) to that question. I will answer that loaded question simply by "No".
What is the difference between seeing an ‘stranger’, seeing an ’enemy’, and seeing ‘wife’ in DE – they are all colour with different thought content, right? How is one colour different from another in DE if all there is to colour is seeing
Brilliant! The label and mental stories about each is the only difference.

Question for you; Do you guide all others in this journey? Who do you invest your time and energy to guide? How do you identify “willing others”?

Deep love and thanks,
A
Much Love,

A

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poppyseed
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Re: Wake up!

Postby poppyseed » Fri Oct 20, 2023 7:52 am

Hi Amin
I've read in places that this shift can be challenging and it is true but THAT is a label as well. I only seek the truth. At any price.
There are LU support groups and zoom meetings that help with this "transition".
Also, this video might be useful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQcD588g2w
Question for you; Do you guide all others in this journey? Who do you invest your time and energy to guide? How do you identify “willing others”?
Well, by “willing” I mean they have to express a desire to be guided – like on this forum. There has to be a certain level of readiness and ripeness. This comes from personal experience – not “everyone” is ready for an inquiry. If you want to guide, this forum gives a perfect opportunity for this

So, is there still seeking? How is life? Is there anything else that you want to explore together?
Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti

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BAwake2day
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:53 am
Location: New Mexico, USA
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Re: Wake up!

Postby BAwake2day » Fri Oct 20, 2023 4:47 pm

There are LU support groups and zoom meetings that help with this "transition".
Can you please guide me to these groups, meetings?
So, is there still seeking? How is life? Is there anything else that you want to explore together?
No more seeking, merely experiencing moments and some experiences are unpleasant but necessary. Overall life has never been more clear or simple, a blessing indeed. At the same time, there are moments of panic and alarm but its understood that this is par for this course. I could keep exploring with you for a long time but it's understood that we cannot.

an idea to explore with you and it seems to be a consistent exploration is how others fit into this process. How do societies (label) and others (another label) fit into the journey? As apples? as Santas?

As always, thank you!

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poppyseed
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Re: Wake up!

Postby poppyseed » Sat Oct 21, 2023 11:20 am

Hi Amin
Can you please guide me to these groups, meetings?
You will be automatically added to these groups once you “formally” “pass the gateless gate” ;)
No more seeking, merely experiencing moments and some experiences are unpleasant but necessary. Overall life has never been more clear or simple, a blessing indeed. At the same time, there are moments of panic and alarm but its understood that this is par for this course.
Is there anything in “this moment” that is “unpleasant" per se without the thought content? Is there anything inherently “unpleasant” in sensations, seeing, hearing, …? Also “necessary” suggests “optional” – is there any “choice” here – what makes THIS “necessary” or “unnecessary”? Always explore the story – is it true???
I could keep exploring with you for a long time but it's understood that we cannot.
You are more than welcome to stay in touch if you have an "issue" and you want to explore it together
an idea to explore with you and it seems to be a consistent exploration is how others fit into this process. How do societies (label) and others (another label) fit into the journey? As apples? as Santas?
I can see how thoughts are trying to get some kind of meaning to this new seeing ;). They can try...
You keep on asking me, hoping I can drop a wisdom of a sort to help you “solve the problem” with "others". There is still looking for a meaning where there is none. Whatever “meaning” you assign to THIS (new or old) it will be just a story. There is no doer, "things" are just happening/unfolding on their own, effortlessly, meaning or no meaning. If I have to be correct everything should be in "_"

What journey? What is going where? What happens at the end??? The end of what?? I’m sorry to be blunt here, but there is no "relative" and "absolute", no character doing stuff in the enlightened story, there is just THIS “unfolding”, with empty “meaning” coming along. There is no "you" seeing through the patterns - it is just patterns seeing themselves by comparing the description to DE. No description comes even close to DE - like imaging eating a chocolate vs actual experience of eating chocolate. Thoughts eventually exhaust themselves of this going round and round, give up on trying to find a meaning. Seeing through the emptiness of the “meaning”/story, releases the story and shifts attention to what is truly here_now - seeing the "silence" behind the story, the effortless happening with no entities doing anything whatsoever. Is the story necessary for THIS to happen? Can you see that?

Love
Rali
“Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in.”
― Alan Alda
"The moment I am aware that I am aware I am not aware. Awareness means the observer is not"
― Jiddu Krishnamurti


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