The Gate

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

had the experience of the mind kind of 'da da da-ing' to the  turn overs. so i got that part of my mind to pay attention to the breath while while i looked at my hand turning over, it was doing its own thing.  no decision making from me.

- How is the movement controlled?

I dont know, not by me thinking about it.

- Does a thought control it?  - How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

initial thought was 'there were some decisions though.  To do it, sometimes.  to stop doing it, sometimes, and to not do it.' and then the second question.  there is a lag between thought and action.  i think about turning my hand over, and then, i turn my hand over and there is a lag between the action and the thought  i think ive made a decision to turn the hand over, but the hand only turns over when its ready, sometimes not moving to do the exercise for a good while and then when it does, i think its my decision. thinking the thought doesnt turn the hand over. i could think the thought about turning my hand over and that wont turn my hand over.
 .
but i wouldnt be doing it at all if you hadnt suggested it, so what is prompting me to do it?

- Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No, it was doing its own thing without any instruction from me

- Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

the right hand was used without any hesitation, it wasnt chosen.. until it started clicking lol.  then there was a mixture of spontaneous left hand, making a decision about the left hand and forgetting and using the right again.

- Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

there was nobody in here and nobody out there making the hand move

but i wouldnt be doing it at all if you hadnt suggested it, so what is prompting me to do it?

I have no idea :-)

Luckily, the only question we are examining is: Are 'you' doing it? The answer seems to be no.

there was nobody in here and nobody out there making the hand move

How does it feel to see this?

This seeking to realize no inherent self--did you start it? Can you end it?

What is doing this inquiry? Is there an 'I' doing it, or is it just happening?

there was nobody in here and nobody out there making the hand moveHow does it feel to see this?

It makes me wonder about everything else i think i do.  im thinking about taking the dogs out.  i know the dogs are going out.  i think -  i must take the dogs out.  then i dont, then i feel guilty.  i do this several times until suddenly, i take the dogs out.  all that thinking about it and not doing it and feeling guilty is a waste of time.  this is transferable.
i dont control the body.  it just does its thing.  is it learnt behavior - like putting clothes on? or does it just know, how to do stuff, like walk for example?
i dont know how i feel about it.  it feels like i dont feel anything about it.  that, that could feel scarey, but isnt.  puzzllement

This seeking to realize no inherent self--did you start it? Can you end it?

i want to say yes i did but thinking about the hand exercise and the GPS.. the opportunity arrived and i was moved to take it.  i dont think there is a choice to stop but wonderingin the same way  of being moved to take the opportunity there is a possibility i could be moved to step back from it.  


What is doing this inquiry? Is there an 'I' doing it, or is it just happening?

theres a shape called deborah who thinks she s an i, learning that she is not an i, though it is just happeneing

It makes me wonder about everything else i think i do. im thinking about taking the dogs out. i know the dogs are going out. i think - i must take the dogs out. then i dont, then i feel guilty. i do this several times until suddenly, i take the dogs out. all that thinking about it and not doing it and feeling guilty is a waste of time. this is transferable.

Yup! :-)

i dont control the body. it just does its thing. is it learnt behavior - like putting clothes on? or does it just know, how to do stuff, like walk for example?
i dont know how i feel about it. it feels like i dont feel anything about it. that, that could feel scarey, but isnt. puzzllement

Having 2 children, I can say a lot of training of said children is needed, so my guess would be that it is learned.

i want to say yes i did but thinking about the hand exercise and the GPS.. the opportunity arrived and i was moved to take it. i dont think there is a choice to stop but wonderingin the same way of being moved to take the opportunity there is a possibility i could be moved to step back from it.

What is doing this inquiry? Is there an 'I' doing it, or is it just happening?

theres a shape called deborah who thinks she s an i, learning that she is not an i, though it is just happeneing

Pretty fascinating, isn't it?

Here's a good next one to explore choice more:

Drink Exercise

The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.

Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:

1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.

2. Count to 5.

3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:

Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?

Enjoy! :)

n step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

the qualities just popped in.  a 'rational' preference began to appear.. i wanted neither drink really - a glass of beer that a friend had left at the house, not my favorite and a glass of milk.  i had drunk a big glass of milk about an hour ago. but thinking the beer - sharp, clean, cold seemed to be preferable over the creamy milk.

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

tthe counting just started, there might have been a 'right' in the mind, like youve had long enough now ...the confusion about the choice i would make continued behind the counting. the qualities of the beer sound better but i prefer the milk.

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

i reached for the milk which was a surprise cause i had been thinking to choose the beer based on the qualities.

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

i dont know what chose the milk, couldnt see a chooser there.  Now i am choosing to drink the beer cause its sharp and crisp and after all its past 6pm and i had a massive drink of milk earlier.  yesterday i shopped for a top.  there were thoughts about which colour would i get most wear out of, will i get sun on my shoulders in it, does it need a lot of ironing and so on.  choosing seems to be based on what is judged most suitable or beneficial for circumstance, which is the best choice that will meet which ever need will be addressed.

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the 'choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to 'choose’?

choosing the milk over the beer felt more of a feeling/habit/instinct ? cause i do actually prefer it over beer but as soon as i had a sip, i knew i wanted the beer. i wanted the drink with the qualities of the beer, not the milk. rather than choose, does feeling influence choosing?

choosing the milk over the beer felt more of a feeling/habit/instinct ? cause i do actually prefer it over beer but as soon as i had a sip, i knew i wanted the beer. i wanted the drink with the qualities of the beer, not the milk. rather than choose, does feeling influence choosing?

Feeling could just be how the body chooses, just like with inner GPS. Like suddenly there's the urge/movement to take out the dogs. And in all of this there is no "I" in control, just the body living life.

So for the next day or so, take the palm + drinks exercise with you during the day and see how decisions and choices happen.

When you get out of bed, is there a chooser or decider? When you choose what to wear for the day, when to take out the dogs, what to eat, and anything else that pops up.

It can be as small as the hand moving, fingers typing, eyes focusing on something in the distance, and so on.

It can be intangible, like thoughts popping up from nowhere, feelings coming and going, trying to control feelings, relaxing, remembering to do this inquiry.

Then report back what happened :)

Henri, apologies, I lost a bit of momentum. Will reply more fully tomorrow.

OK! :)

My keyboard is broken. Im using the on screen keyboard and mouse.

I've watched myself make plans to do stuff and not done it or do something different. Do stuff I wasn't planning to do. Planned sleep schedules that didn't happen even though I Coul really have done with the sleep or be up and doing things.im seeing that I dont have the control I think I do.

Re: Choosing clothes...is the body influencing the choices for its comfort and that is why I dont choose a woolly jumper in June and what about colour why does it seem like there are preferences?

Re: Choosing clothes...is the body influencing the choices for its comfort and that is why I dont choose a woolly jumper in June and what about colour why does it seem like there are preferences?

Who knows? Maybe a certain color got associated with something pleasant in childhood, or the brain just finds it comforting or something else.

Put two blankets on the floor and a dog will eventually only use one, or one will most likely become the favorite.

im seeing that I dont have the control I think I do.

So is there still a feeling of control somewhere?

So is there still a feeling of control somewhere?

I really want to say yes!!! ..... I think yeah but, what about when....... and then think about that and blow a hole in it. So I suppose, no. There is just what happens.

I am going camping tomorrow Henri and am not due back til the 8th/9th August. Is there anything you would like me to do while Im away. Working at the moment but will check in before I leave tomorrow. Thanks :-)

I really want to say yes!!! ..... I think yeah but, what about when....... and then think about that and blow a hole in it. So I suppose, no. There is just what happens.

Ha, that's great. If there's a thought that says there is control, just ask it to show where this control is. Eventually it will give up :-)

I am going camping tomorrow Henri and am not due back til the 8th/9th August. Is there anything you would like me to do while Im away. Working at the moment but will check in before I leave tomorrow. Thanks :-)

Since you're going out in nature, depending on where you're camping, below is the nature exercise.

You could take one question with you and keep it in mind during the day, just allow it to percolate. Ask it, and feel into the body.

And, of course, if there's something you naturally feel drawn to do, like a previous exercise, or something entirely new that feels right, do that.

Have fun!

Nature Exercise

Go out into nature and spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colors, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?

(If a boundary is found, close your eyes, and go to the boundary. What is it made of?)

Is there an inside and an outside of Life?

Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?

Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance? Is witnessing part of the one movement too?

Is there anything which is not just happening?

Let me know how it went when you get back!

Hi Henri, I had a great time camping. I was at a festival with a group of shapes :-D i love to be with.

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?

i didnt have an experience of just slipping into it, like the one in bed.  i did feel in it, my breathing being part of the movement of the whole. it felt like the boundary was where my body touched the chair and different parts of my body touched each other. 

(If a boundary is found, close your eyes, and go to the boundary. What is it made of?)

the boundary was made of contact.   then realising that, that sensation was just part of everything.

Is there an inside and an outside of Life?

no, there is just life

Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?

no, everything is included.

Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance? Is witnessing part of the one movement too?

yes the witnessing felt part of the whole

Is there anything which is not just happening? 

 

No everything is just happening.

I was at a festival with a group of shapes :-D i love to be with.

Hah, glad to hear it. Pleasant sounds with a group of shapes :)

the boundary was made of contact. then realising that, that sensation was just part of everything.

To explore this a bit further:

Hand on Desk

Please close your eyes for this exercise, just notice any ‘mental’ images or thoughts that appear and put them aside.

Place a hand on a desk or table (flat surface) and close your eyes.

Now 'go to' the feeling/sensation which we would normally refer to as 'hand on desk' and answer from what you can FIND.

1) How many things do you find? Are there two things (hand and desk) or is there one thing – sensation?

2) Can a ‘feeler’ be found in 'what is being felt'?

3) Do you notice 'one thing feeling another thing'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?

4) Do you find an 'I', a body, a hand 'feeling' . . . or is there just 'a sensation'? What do you find?

Can an inherent feeler be found?

Would anything that is suggested as the feeler, be anything other than a concept, idea or thought?