Continuing a journey of awakening and dropping resistance

[poppyseed]

Hi Shreyash

Does this "could not be any other way" refer to timeline and decision-making? The thoughts accompanying resistance usually are hoping for the unpleasant experience to change in the 'future', or for 'me' to change them. Is it that without these ideas, there is only now, and hence what is cannot be any other way? Or is there another meaning to this phrase?

THIS "could not be any other way" refers to everything. Are there really “relative” world and “absolute” world? It’s just THIS. Reality is what it is and not what thought says, that is the point to this inquiry – to see what is real and what is fiction. To say that there is a benefit in believing some of the fiction, is a bit nonsensical because with that belief, the belief of doer sneaks in that “benefits” from that story. The main and only point is to LOOK what is here, now. Seeing ALL stories as empty is where freedom rests. It lies in seeing that concepts are creations of language that serve the purpose of communicating. They are practical, but empty.

These are 2 separate thoughts right?
1. The moment cannot be anything other than what it is.
2. The moment is perfect.

Why does 1 imply 2? It can be seen that the moment cannot be anything other than what it is, because it simply IS, but this needn't mean the moment be our idea of 'perfect'. There can still be dissatisfaction or resistance within the moment. Anyways, my evaluation of what 'perfect' means is basically revolving around the positive/negative judgement of thought and sensation that are arising.
What does the perfection of the moment mean? If we are to let go of thought and judgement, then there is no conventional idea of perfect, there simply is.

THIS (What IS) is beyond qualities and flaws to be added or removed, accepted or rejected. Perfection is a flawless state where everything is exactly right the way it is. Since perfect things are without fault or flaw, perfection is a perfect condition — everything is 100% right. There is no practice that could improve THIS. "Resistance" and "dissatisfaction" only show what needs to be seen as "perfect", the way it is. Faults and flaws in THIS can be found only in thought which, defines THIS as “positive or negative”, to be desired or avoided, to be changed for the "better". Surrendering is what is left when resistance to what is ends.
Just notice what is ‘underneath’ all thoughts.
Thoughts add an overlaying narrative of names, labels, interpretations, explanations over the simplicity of what is.
Instead of endlessly reaching for ideas, concepts and explanations, just let it all go, and see.
Just see what is here now silently, without words.
Just notice what is left when you stop thinking about it.

If there is action you can "take" when a want comes up, then "take" it.

Meaning, I should engage with the want? There are many wants that come up, some 'unhealthy' in a sense too, for the body or for the mind. Should they be avoided, engaged with, or should I just observe whatever unfolds in the moment mindfully?

Again, is there an “I” that engages with the “wants”. Is there a doer that responds to the wants? Staying in the gap of the “want” is an opportunity for the thought to reorganise around what really is happening. Seeing the conditioned thoughts that arise with the sensations (remember the video of 6s after), checking their validity (is this really happening) – just noticing, staying in being. If there is action to be taken it will take itself – like the want to eat would resolve in “you” going to the fridge… And that is what I mean with “If there is action you can take when a want comes up, then take it. If not, just watch, smile, take notes, and release.”
For a day or two, just watch the wanting that comes up.
In what area does it show up the most? Where is the biggest lack felt?
You don’t need to do anything but notice and acknowledge. Watch what happens, and notice how it feels. Feel the gap between wanting and not having, and observe what sensations are triggered when wanting appears. Bringing attention to the mechanism of wanting will reveal curious things. LOOK! Don't try to figure it out, just notice what is here and what is not. That is your only "responsibility" - to notice what is here, now :)
Love
Rali

[Jetstream]

Hi Rali,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQcD588g2w

Certainly a reassuring video, and one that encourages dropping the need to engage with any lie or illusion voluntarily.

To say that there is a benefit in believing some of the fiction, is a bit nonsensical because with that belief, the belief of doer sneaks in that “benefits” from that story.

Ahhh yes. That is true.

"Resistance" and "dissatisfaction" only show what needs to be seen as "perfect", the way it is. Faults and flaws in THIS can be found only in thought which, defines THIS as “positive or negative”, to be desired or avoided, to be changed for the "better".

Hmmm yes. The thoughts of dissatisfaction or resistance are just as much as part of 'THIS' as anything else, and what IS is perfect, even if it contains thought content that says it isn't.

Just notice what is ‘underneath’ all thoughts.
Thoughts add an overlaying narrative of names, labels, interpretations, explanations over the simplicity of what is.
Instead of endlessly reaching for ideas, concepts and explanations, just let it all go, and see.
Just see what is here now silently, without words.
Just notice what is left when you stop thinking about it.

Just this is left. No labels, no distinctions, just raw experience. Unfolding as it is.

Again, is there an “I” that engages with the “wants”. Is there a doer that responds to the wants?

Hmm no, the 'I' is something constructed that is claiming the thoughts that are appearing as part of the 'decision making' process, or claiming credit for the 'action' if it has happened. No doer is responding, response is simply happening with thought story going on about it.

And that is what I mean with “If there is action you can take when a want comes up, then take it. If not, just watch, smile, take notes, and release.”
For a day or two, just watch the wanting that comes up.

Hmm I understand.

In what area does it show up the most? Where is the biggest lack felt?

Have been doing this for the last 2 days and I've seen the biggest lack or want sensations/thoughts come up in departments involving 'others', desires from 'others' or expectations from 'others'. Similarly this is mirrored with the self (which is ultimately the same since both are concepts), in expectation with overcoming resistance or being a certain way.
I am beginning to find greater ease and lesser stickiness in this however. In focusing purely on the raw experience when these things arise (and occasionally exploring the thought content and stories), I am already finding less stickiness and expectation, a bit more peace. This may be temporary, may change immediately, but there is a more welcoming response now to resistance when it arises as an opportunity of exploration. Sometimes it gets explored, sometimes it is lost and the 'actions' or speech that I conduct is from the same place of engaging with stories and thought content. I don't expect it to change immediately though. And the more this unfolds, the less there is the sense of 'me' doing it, and more of it just happening.

There is still the tendency to have the thought of the 'me' that needs to do more 'being & exploration', thought it is seen through on the macro. I notice this because if you were to ask me what further guidance would I require, simply posing the question still makes my thought scramble to find what is still 'lacking' in the 'self' and try to ask for guidance or exercises around that. But I will explore that desire and want too and let it go. Perhaps I shall go back and experience some of the exercises we have already done once more.

As a guide if there is anything you would suggest I do now, do let me know.

Love,
Shreyash

[poppyseed]

Hi Shreyash

Very good! I can see a lot less resistance and a lot more ease in your reply

Have been doing this for the last 2 days and I've seen the biggest lack or want sensations/thoughts come up in departments involving 'others', desires from 'others' or expectations from 'others'. Similarly this is mirrored with the self (which is ultimately the same since both are concepts), in expectation with overcoming resistance or being a certain way.

It will take time for this to sync in. Just keep on inquiring what is there beneath the concepts…

I am beginning to find greater ease and lesser stickiness in this however. In focusing purely on the raw experience when these things arise (and occasionally exploring the thought content and stories), I am already finding less stickiness and expectation, a bit more peace.

That is great! :)

There is still the tendency to have the thought of the 'me' that needs to do more 'being & exploration', thought it is seen through on the macro. I notice this because if you were to ask me what further guidance would I require, simply posing the question still makes my thought scramble to find what is still 'lacking' in the 'self' and try to ask for guidance or exercises around that. But I will explore that desire and want too and let it go. Perhaps I shall go back and experience some of the exercises we have already done once more.

You know how to LOOK so keep on doing that. It’s that simple :)

As a guide if there is anything you would suggest I do now, do let me know.

So let's review where we are at with the following questions:
What has changed and what hasn’t in normal everyday living. What is the biggest difference from before starting this conversation?
Is seeking still going on?
Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?
Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?

We have some traditional final questions. Would you like to answer those?
Love
Rali

[Jetstream]

Hi Rali,

I am travelling once again and need some more time to continue to do the looking and let the answers to your questions come. Especially regarding the changes in daily life and any potential confusion or things left to address. I will get back to you in 1-2 days, thank you for the patience.

Love,
Shreyash

[poppyseed]

Hi Shreyash
Thank you for letting me know! Enjoy your travels
Love
Rali

[poppyseed]

Hi Shreyash
Are we still doing this? There are five people waiting for a guide. Is everything OK?
Love
Rali

[Jetstream]

Hi Rali,

Yes we are still doing this. I am just struggling to find the right words or responses to provide. Please give me another day.

Thank you,
Shreyash

[Jetstream]

Hi Rali,

I've faced some personal crises in relation to some close friendships in the last few days, that has delayed answering these questions because I have felt the answers to these questions change depending on how things have unfolded in my daily life.

What has changed and what hasn’t in normal everyday living. What is the biggest difference from before starting this conversation?

I think the biggest change is that in some situations the tightness in a lot of the resistance to life is looser now. Things that were low-intensity can be experienced without self-ing as much and things that are high-intensity in sensation take time. In the process of engaging with them, it is spontaneously seen in some moments the futility or the illusion based upon which those engagements are happening. There is less of a need to think about the self, though it is still a pattern that shows up very often, there are more moments of realization and letting go.
Practically I feel like a lot of how my life is going day-to-day is the same at the moment, at times indulgent or self-destructive. But the same things feel less 'heavy'.

Is seeking still going on?

Perhaps? I quickly and often find myself back in the 'improvement' mindset, of a 'me' that needs to incorporate 'insights' from this journey and become more efficient, essentially measuring progress based on how much of the arising thought I can be mindful of and let go of vs. how much I engage in. And also judging based on how much of my day-to-day life and actions are changing. But when I notice this mindset, there is the understanding that this too is thought like anything else. There is understanding that there isn't anyone who can be improved or can control the events. (That thought too can get hijacked by another 'doer' that wishes to make sure this understanding is seen at all times. The mechanism is quite persistent).
So to definitively answer this question, at times yes it still 'feels' like seeking. And at times it doesn't.

Is there any confusion at all or anything you would like to address?

Nothing specific has come up to me in the last few days. I did have the opportunity to observe my understanding through my personal conflicts recently, which like most interpersonal conflicts tend to be quite ego-fuelled. I saw that I still acted or spoke with the 'I' illusion going strongly, but there was a background awareness or thought about it being an illusion ultimately. And there was less criticism about acting from the 'I' because that was just coming from more thought of 'I'.

So in a sense, there is no specific thing that I wish to clarify. Initially, there is just a sense of dissatisfaction with the consistency of observation, with the continued unhelpful thought patterns that are being engaged with. Then there is understanding that the dissatisfaction is coming from the same 'I' or expectation that we have talked about.

Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear what the illusion of a separate self is?

It is a yes, but not a big fat one on initial impression - purely because I seem to be evaluating whether I can see the illusion clearly based on how much I am able to see it in my day-to-day life vs engage in it. Putting expectations of what it looks like aside, yes I have seen the illusion through our conversation.

Actually, I think the greatest hindrance or thought patterns to me now are about how the self "should be" and and the desires or expectations to be a certain way. We have worked through this before so I don't really know if there is anything to be done here other than to continue exploring/surrendering to the sensations and experience and to continue questioning 'whose' expectations those are. If there is anything you would suggest, I am more than willing to continue questioning and looking. If not, the final questions are alright too - since there is no 'me' really here I think all the doubts and expectations that are present currently might have a way of getting cleared in their own time.

Love,
Shreyash

[poppyseed]

Hi Shreyash
It’s good to have you back!

Nothing specific has come up to me in the last few days. I did have the opportunity to observe my understanding through my personal conflicts recently, which like most interpersonal conflicts tend to be quite ego-fuelled. I saw that I still acted or spoke with the 'I' illusion going strongly, but there was a background awareness or thought about it being an illusion ultimately. And there was less criticism about acting from the 'I' because that was just coming from more thought of 'I'.

If you expected that all of a sudden things will magically change… This conditioning was not built in a day, remember. This is a very good video that Ilona and Luchana made with regards of expectations. I highly suggest you watch it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93fpiOnKM4M&t=1s

Practically I feel like a lot of how my life is going day-to-day is the same at the moment, at times indulgent or self-destructive. But the same things feel less 'heavy'.

That is great! Just keep on looking!

Then there is understanding that the dissatisfaction is coming from the same 'I' or expectation that we have talked about.

Exactly! If there are should’s or should-not’s it is most definitely an expectation/thought. It needs to be explored. Ask “What is there outside of life/what-is that wants it to be different?” and just LOOK! “Stay” in the gap of that “dissatisfaction”, observe the sensations, just notice what is underneath the thought about “dissatisfaction”.

It is a yes, but not a big fat one on initial impression - purely because I seem to be evaluating whether I can see the illusion clearly based on how much I am able to see it in my day-to-day life vs engage in it. Putting expectations of what it looks like aside, yes I have seen the illusion through our conversation.

Do you need to keep on checking all the time that “I” is not there? Where could the “I” possibly hide? There are still doubtful thoughts how the illusion is still here, but is there really doubt that the “I” is an illusion? The illusion can look the same even after truth about it is known. Thoughts need time for all to sink in. Do you remember when you learned how to ride a bicycle? At first, you couldn't ride it. Then, there a was a moment when you suddenly succeeded in riding it. Then for the first two or three rides it might have been a bit awkward. Then, it becomes so natural that you don't care about how to ride it anymore. You simply ride it, and it's indeed simple!

If there is anything you would suggest, I am more than willing to continue questioning and looking. If not, the final questions are alright too - since there is no 'me' really here I think all the doubts and expectations that are present currently might have a way of getting cleared in their own time.

Answering the final questions has the advantage of access to groups where you can find support and ask questions to find out how others are dealing with “deconditioning”. I’m also around, so you can always get in touch (I’ll give you my contact info) or even continue writing on your thread and I’ll answer. It doesn’t have to end.
It’s entirely up to you how you want to proceed and we don’t have to rush if you are not ready for them. Just let me know how I can help :)

Love
Rali

[poppyseed]

Hi Shreyash
Is everything OK? Is it all done for you?
Love
Rali

[Jetstream]

Hi Rali,

Thank you for the video, I will definitely give it a watch.

Exactly! If there are should’s or should-not’s it is most definitely an expectation/thought. It needs to be explored. Ask “What is there outside of life/what-is that wants it to be different?” and just LOOK! “Stay” in the gap of that “dissatisfaction”, observe the sensations, just notice what is underneath the thought about “dissatisfaction”.

Yes, I should look at what the expectation is. What exactly do I want to be different in life and notice the experience. I have been doing that, and I will continue.

Do you need to keep on checking all the time that “I” is not there?

Hmm no - the need to do that is also likely coming from the "I" that wants it to not be there. Ironic as it always is.

Where could the “I” possibly hide? There are still doubtful thoughts how the illusion is still here, but is there really doubt that the “I” is an illusion?

Fair enough. There is no doubt that the "I" is an illusion. There are thoughts around the persistence of this idea and trying to interpret what it "should" be like, as I have mentioned, but there is no doubt regarding the idea itself.

Answering the final questions has the advantage of access to groups where you can find support and ask questions to find out how others are dealing with “deconditioning”. I’m also around, so you can always get in touch (I’ll give you my contact info) or even continue writing on your thread and I’ll answer. It doesn’t have to end.

That is good to know! Sure, I am ready to take a look at the final questions.

Love,
Shreyash

[poppyseed]

Hi Shreyash
Great to hear from you!

That is good to know! Sure, I am ready to take a look at the final questions.

Here are the final questions. Please answer all questions in full, when you are ready. Please answer what's true for you rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?
Love
Rali

[Jetstream]

Hi Rali,

I've found that a resistance is arising to answering these questions in the last few days. Perhaps because there is still a judgement or a feeling of not being ready? I am doing the looking and I am noticing and seeing through the patterns but they still run quite strong. I am noticing the expectation of them disappearing or of this process' result "looking" a certain way, but the resistance to answering is still arising. I would love to work together on this, and I think there's 2 aspects to it:

Life has been a little strange in the last couple weeks - it has been super indulgent and in a practical sense, a lot of my routines have been overturned. Odd sleeping times, no exercise, and disregard for my diet or my work. I have had phases like this in the past but usually they've been accompanied with plenty of self-judgement and tension as these things are happening. This time, there's almost none of that xD. Oddly enough, The self-critical voice that I used to utilize to "change" these situations isn't there as much anymore after our journey and exercises. So the meta judgement has been seen through and I don't feel as much suffering on the whole - but the raw craving or sensations that create this phase in the first place are persistent and are taking more time to see through and normalize out. Learning to be open and experience something fully and entirely is a gradual process and there's still plenty of avoidance/indulgence mechanisms at play here.

Secondly, on the interpersonal or relationships front, there are still strong triggers associated with a primary trauma of seeking external validation, feeling hurt without it, and also criticizing that I have it (funny how that works). Of course, we have discussed that this is still rooted from the idea of separation and when I understand this, these things loosen. But because of how persistent these are and how there is still a sense of effort required or evaluation of how it manifests as action - there is thought of being "not ready".

Because the final questions involve reporting on the major differences and how the recent few days have been, there is an initial hesitation in answering given the strangeness of them. Granted this also gets seen and released and I can definitely answer the questions, but I feel that there is still much that I can gain just from the regular dialogue with an external party's perspective.
The simple act of answering your questions has helped challenge predominant thought patterns and see through them for what they are. While I have no doubt I have seen what needs to be seen for myself and know that the process will unfold on its own, there is still benefit in engaging with someone else.

Perhaps when some of the heavier things are looked at there is a tendency to be distracted by thought content or to perpetuate strongly held patterns. I also understand that wanting the looking to be 'more' effective and seeing 'more' effect in daily life is the same seeking energy - and the seeking energy is not extinguished. Maybe we can continue conversation on that itself?

With regards to answering the final questions, I am not sure how to balance the 2 things -
1. Knowing that the self, desire, expectation and seeking is fabricated and not real - and the moment I am asked questions about it I can see that it isn't there. Yet still,
2. Being honest about how there is still thought of doubt, expectation and moment-to-moment experience not being very different.


Love,
Shreyash

[poppyseed]

Hi Shreyash
First of all…

I've found that a resistance is arising to answering these questions in the last few days. Perhaps because there is still a judgement or a feeling of not being ready?

What is a feeling of “not being ready”? Is it a relative to the famous “feels like”/seems like”? Just to remind you seems like/feels like = thought content. So basically you are saying that you have thoughts ABOUT not being ready, right? And thoughts say the darndest things :))))

Once that we made this clear let’s look at the rest…

Life has been a little strange in the last couple weeks - it has been super indulgent and in a practical sense, a lot of my routines have been overturned. Odd sleeping times, no exercise, and disregard for my diet or my work. I have had phases like this in the past but usually they've been accompanied with plenty of self-judgement and tension as these things are happening. This time, there's almost none of that xD. Oddly enough, The self-critical voice that I used to utilize to "change" these situations isn't there as much anymore after our journey and exercises. So the meta judgement has been seen through and I don't feel as much suffering on the whole - but the raw craving or sensations that create this phase in the first place are persistent and are taking more time to see through and normalize out. Learning to be open and experience something fully and entirely is a gradual process and there's still plenty of avoidance/indulgence mechanisms at play here.

Let’s look at this again… Can thoughts do anything BUT describe?? Is this a ‘self-improvement” exercise/story? To make things better for whom? Is there an expectations that these raw sensations would change (become comfortable or pleasant) as a result of the inquiry? Can YOU change the raw sensations with your “actions”? Where do “avoidance”/”indulgence” live?
Acceptance comes naturally when seeing that “all correcting actions” of what IS are futile and making peace with IT – pleasant or unpleasant. Ultimately, is there anything wrong with the self-critical voice? Can it do anything but give a description (wrong/right is just an idea)? The question here is what believes it/ identifies with it??? And before you fall in the next rabbit hole (of absolutism)… If you are in real danger, like a car coming your way, what do you think will happen? Would you sit and contemplate if the car is real/separate or would you jump immediately out of the way? I’m betting on the second option:). Everything is self-organised, including your thoughts! Remember the analogy with the icons on your desktop? They are used as a visual representation of what is actually a binary code – zeros and ones - so you can make use of them. Reality cannot be known and that is why we have the illusion, but does the illusion need to be a delusion? There is not much you can do with pain except of making peace with it (provided that a painkiller etc. doesn’t work) but seeing through the illusionary nature of mental suffering is an option. Buddhist speak of the middle way and that also apply to absolutism vs relativism. They speak of returning to the marketplace – to the world. This is also a return to your ordinary self as an expression of Buddha nature. In Zen they say that your ordinary mind is Buddha mind so it’s really nothing special when you attain enlightenment. In fact, you haven’t really ‘attained’ anything, since you always were Buddha :).
To be free lives beyond the state of non-conceptualisation, but our ability to use concepts is indivisible from our functioning and naturally needs to be integrated into our natural world. Wisdom requires discrimination, and discrimination requires duality – duality within the mind itself. To be stuck in the state of suchness is to fail to enter the world of function, and hence to fail to realise the very purpose of enlightenment, which is to experience the totality of life.

Secondly, on the interpersonal or relationships front, there are still strong triggers associated with a primary trauma of seeking external validation, feeling hurt without it, and also criticizing that I have it (funny how that works). Of course, we have discussed that this is still rooted from the idea of separation and when I understand this, these things loosen. But because of how persistent these are and how there is still a sense of effort required or evaluation of how it manifests as action - there is thought of being "not ready".

Like I said physical pain happens and is unavoidable, but mental pain is optional. Once you know the empty nature of thoughts it becomes difficult to take it seriously. However, the further “along the path” you get, the more subtle the identification with thought becomes and the harder it is to see when “you’ve fallen off the path”. So generally “not taking yourself seriously (i.e. your thoughts) is always a good idea :)

Thinking makes the experience one-sided. It is a pattern of thoughts - one leading to the next. The more engaging they are the more they are. That’s why here we focus on everything else but thinking - we bring the attention back to the other aspects of experience (the 5 senses) and disregard thinking. So when thinking happens we recognize it and label it “thinking “ or “storytelling”, which breaks the patterns and bring attention back to the other aspects of the experience. We all have stories. Some are stickier than others. You can also try Ilona’s method of Deep Looking where feelings are welcomed and released. Have you read her book? Here is a link towards a video where she explains it https://youtu.be/H7Uo4xPAimA

Perhaps when some of the heavier things are looked at there is a tendency to be distracted by thought content or to perpetuate strongly held patterns. I also understand that wanting the looking to be 'more' effective and seeing 'more' effect in daily life is the same seeking energy - and the seeking energy is not extinguished. Maybe we can continue conversation on that itself?

“Crossing the gate” is only the beginning of the exploration. The “tools” are here so anything could be explored. What you might find interesting for further exploring is the Ten Fetters. I find it a good way to inspect beliefs in a structured way. I try to cover most important beliefs with my guiding, but it’s a good reference of what else can be explored. They say that LU inquiry covers the first 3 and some guides actively point only to these, but for me it covers all of them if you question everything. And I always try guiding a bit further. Anyway, you can learn more about it here:
https://www.simplytheseen.com/explore-each-fetter.html

Looking forward to you reply ;)
Love
Rali

[Jetstream]

Hi Rali,

What is a feeling of “not being ready”? Is it a relative to the famous “feels like”/seems like”? Just to remind you seems like/feels like = thought content. So basically you are saying that you have thoughts ABOUT not being ready, right? And thoughts say the darndest things :))))

Yep, pretty much. There is thought about not being ready. And given that our discussions recently have been around the final questions and the readiness to answer them, this thought felt worth expressing here. But yes it is ultimately thought content and sensations.

Can thoughts do anything BUT describe??

No. They arise and commentate on what is happening.

Is this a ‘self-improvement” exercise/story?

Haha absolutely. That is the persistent underlying story happening here.

To make things better for whom?

"Me!" reacts the thought content. Briefly after that there is thought that 'I have seen that me is not there, how is it still persistent?.

Is there an expectations that these raw sensations would change (become comfortable or pleasant) as a result of the inquiry?

Spot on. There is underlying desire/expectation that seeing that the me is not there should result in the decrease of certain kinds of thought or perhaps an altering in sensation. The thought that 'enough is not done'. Seeing that this is in itself also just a thought of the "self" and not indicative of any truth is the process that is taking time to unfold (or, there is thought that it is "taking time" :) ). I understand what we have already discussed about expectations and how simply seeing no-self is not enough for everything to change immediately.

Can YOU change the raw sensations with your “actions”?

No I cannot. The sensations and experience arise on their own and they will change on their own. It is only when the thought story of the "I" on this journey arises that there is evaluation and desire for it to be a certain way.

Where do “avoidance”/”indulgence” live?

As relative concepts in thought. They exist on top of the "I" program, as relative evaluations or judgements. They are nowhere to be seen outside thought.

Acceptance comes naturally when seeing that “all correcting actions” of what IS are futile and making peace with IT – pleasant or unpleasant.

Thank you, this particular way of wording it really helped put it in perspective. "All correcting action" is where the root of the problem arises, because there is the tendency to believe in the story of some of the correcting actions instead of investigating and SEEING as we do with DE. And thus continues the cycle of constructing something that feels the need to correct itself. More self-organizing thoughts around the concept of self being encouraged to arise.

Ultimately, is there anything wrong with the self-critical voice? Can it do anything but give a description (wrong/right is just an idea)?

Hmmm, no not really. I've always been so caught up in the idea of changing that self-critical voice that the thought of totally
and entirely accepting it instead of reacting to it has not often arised.

The question here is what believes it/ identifies with it???

Nothing that can be seen. Nothing other than the thoughts and sensations that arise and organize their content accordingly, containing an "I" story and a "change" story.

If you are in real danger, like a car coming your way, what do you think will happen? Would you sit and contemplate if the car is real/separate or would you jump immediately out of the way? I’m betting on the second option:). Everything is self-organised, including your thoughts!

Right.

Reality cannot be known and that is why we have the illusion, but does the illusion need to be a delusion?

No, it doesn't.

There is not much you can do with pain except of making peace with it (provided that a painkiller etc. doesn’t work) but seeing through the illusionary nature of mental suffering is an option. Buddhist speak of the middle way and that also apply to absolutism vs relativism. They speak of returning to the marketplace – to the world. This is also a return to your ordinary self as an expression of Buddha nature. In Zen they say that your ordinary mind is Buddha mind so it’s really nothing special when you attain enlightenment. In fact, you haven’t really ‘attained’ anything, since you always were Buddha :).

Right. Thought that "I am not a Buddha yet" does not change what the nature of things is.

To be free lives beyond the state of non-conceptualisation, but our ability to use concepts is indivisible from our functioning and naturally needs to be integrated into our natural world. Wisdom requires discrimination, and discrimination requires duality – duality within the mind itself. To be stuck in the state of suchness is to fail to enter the world of function, and hence to fail to realise the very purpose of enlightenment, which is to experience the totality of life.

That makes sense.

Like I said physical pain happens and is unavoidable, but mental pain is optional. Once you know the empty nature of thoughts it becomes difficult to take it seriously. However, the further “along the path” you get, the more subtle the identification with thought becomes and the harder it is to see when “you’ve fallen off the path”. So generally “not taking yourself seriously (i.e. your thoughts) is always a good idea :)

That makes sense too. I have heard of the process being referred to as 'cleaning up the mind' and yet there is a tendency to create an identity around the cleaner. And maybe the cleaner of that cleaner. So on and so forth. Really the only way not to create anything that isn't there seems to be to not take thought content seriously at all and just continue to be in being instead. Please correct me if I am wrong or misguided in any of this understanding.

You can also try Ilona’s method of Deep Looking where feelings are welcomed and released. Have you read her book?

Are you referring to the Liberation Unleashed book? I have not read it, though I do intend to start on it.

Here is a link towards a video where she explains it https://youtu.be/H7Uo4xPAimA

If I understand it correctly, the method is about turning inwards and asking myself or my mind if it is at peace in the present moment, correct? And openly receiving the answer without judgement. Do we stick with this one question for now or go where the mind takes us in further questioning?

What you might find interesting for further exploring is the Ten Fetters.

Funny story, it is actually through the Simply The Seen website that I found out about LU! Someone else recommended their descriptions of the ten fetters on their instagram page and that brought me here eventually. I have done some reading initially mostly around the first 3 fetters. I shall give it another read now, after having done the questioning and exploration we have.