Liberation Unleashed Forum The Gate
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https://liberationunleashed.com:443/nation/viewtopic.php?t=8933
No, the me is a creation of the mind and its thoughts. It doesn't actually exist as thoughts are mere reflections of sensory input or other thoughts.1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
The illusion of separate self is when the mind takes the sensory experiences of the body and thoughts to be its own entity apart from all other entities that arise in awareness. I've learned the separate self starts to form at around 18 months of age, with conditioning from our parents, family, and society. From my own experience, the separate self works as a tool to do tasks and communicate with other-selves.2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
It feels like seeing something for the first time, something you've questioned before that's right in your face.3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Maybe the sound inquiry, seeing that I don't have to do anything to experience sound, it just happens on its own, no hearer required.4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
A decision is the result of the filters of perception giving us the experience that a separate entity has the power to choose one thing or the other. I decided to go to work today...5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.
Intention is the perceived expectation that we want from our thoughts and actions. I intend not to get in a car accident when driving a car.Describe intention & give examples from experience
Free will is the perceived ability of a separate entity to freely choose what it thinks and does. I choose to have lemonade instead of grape juice.Describe free will & give examples from experience.
To me, this is similar to free will but maybe instead of freely choosing something, I'm faced with a choice. At a wedding I was given the choice of a fish dish or a chicken dish, and I chose fish.Describe choice & give examples from experience.
Control is the perceived ability to manipulate things in "me's" world. I control the speed of my vehicle with the gas and brake pedal.Describe control & give examples from experience.
I don't know. They just seem to happen.What makes things happen? How does it work?
I'm responsible for feeding our baby when he's hungry as I'm his parent and caregiver.What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?
Just that I plan to keep inquiring and studying and feeling what's in my direct experience. I think I have further to go in levels of understanding, experiencing, clarifying, and integrating the insights I've experienced thus far.6) Anything to add?
Are you sure? Or does that just arise like everything else? Why would this be different? LOOKI'm responsible for feeding our baby when he's hungry as I'm his parent and caregiver.
I guess I mean it might seem like there's control and a me is doing those things, but that's all symbols and thoughts and it's all just happening.To clarify, when you say "perceived ability," do you mean that you don't really have the ability to do those things? (you don't)
I suppose the thought of a me feels responsible for feeding baby. It is just arising.Are you sure? Or does that just arise like everything else? Why would this be different? LOOK
That's true, but it isn't a cause-effect. That not a "reason." We can't be responsible for what we don't control. It all just arises. Just isIs it that there's no I so "I'm" not responsible for anything?
"Just that I plan to keep inquiring and studying and feeling what's in my direct experience. I think I have further to go in levels of understanding, experiencing, clarifying, and integrating the insights I've experienced thus far."
Further clarifying, it could be labeled seeking I suppose.Q: Is there still seeking?
Good point, there's nothing outside of reality. I'm probably still identifying with thoughts somewhat and thoughts of a separate me, just less so than a month ago.What is outside of reality that needs to understand it, clarify it and integrate it?
Ahh yes, from where I'm at there are probably still feelings of awakening that will be happening to me, Josh.What is it that awakening could happen TO?
No, just thoughts around a someone, but thoughts are just thoughts, they're not a real.Is there someone separate form THIS, waiting to wake up to reality?
Nothing, it's just the thought of a separate self that sees itself as needing to figure out how things are.What is separate from what is, and is trying to figure out how things are?
Yes.If there's only awareness of what's happening, including a body and thoughts, does awakening just happen but not to or for anyone?
Can you please ask: What is Josh?>"feelings of awakening that will be happening to me, Josh."
In the relative world, the illusion relates to others and objects when I'm at work or doing daily life activities. I might be looking and not finding Josh, but others in the illusory relative world know the illusion as Josh. So in the sense that the illusion is going to work and doing things is what was meant by a tool, even though Josh isn't a separately existing entity, the illusion of Josh is relating to the relative world.How can an illusion be a tool?
Yes. The illusion seems to only appear to be real because it's believed in, but that belief is just a thought, not something in direct experience.Don't tasks and communication happen without that illusion?
Nothing, because he's just a thought and not real and separate, anything thought to be something he is responsible for is just more thoughts about the illusion.What is he absolutely responsible for?
Josh is a thought label given to name a human being that I've been identifying with and as. Millions of thoughts have occurred about this thought label Josh, stories, hopes, opinions on matters, etc. All of those thoughts and narratives are branches and support structures for the mere thought of the label Josh, it's all thoughts and stories.Can you please ask: What is Josh?
Thanks so much, Stacy for all the helpful guiding and pointing!Good morning Josh
No more questions. We're complete here. You'll be receiving private message (top right) with me information.