Requesting a guide.

[Vivien]

Thoughts are like clouds: seen/known and past, not another being nor a defining integral part of me.

Now, let's look at this me. What does the word 'me' refer to in experience? Not in theory (like awareness, consciousness), but in actual experience?

Experiment with this many times during the day.

V

[IainB]

What does the word 'me' refer to in experience? Not in theory...but in actual experience?

When my head moves around I just know colour and cannot locate me.

When I listen I just hear sounds, none of these sounds are me.

When I touch my arm I just feel sensation, I don't feel a me.

When I taste the warm saliva in my mouth there is taste, but this taste is not me.

When I smell the warm air at mny nostrils smell is known, but no me.

Much love,

[Vivien]

OK, very good. Now look a bit more. Like a very curious scientist who would really like to know what is going on. But not in theory, but in actuality. You are doing well.

Whenever there seems to be an I experiencing anything, noticing a thought, feeling a sensation or emotion, just stop for a moment and actually look for this I. Do this as often as possible in the midst of busy life. Let me know what you find.

V

[IainB]

V,

I get how defaulting back to any relied upon label/concept/intellectually understood ideas of what I am (awareness/consciousness/knowing/lifeing) prevents rather than facilitates gating.

So it's good to hunt for I robustly and diligently outwith all such ideas. This creates a real looking-pull away from thought.

Like a very curious scientist who would really like to know what is going on...whenever there seems to be an I experiencing anything... look for this I.

You say like a scientist. Other times there is playful looking, other times scientistic as you guide. Sometimes doubts arise, motivation appears and disappears, looking happens as soon as I wake, comes up frequently in the day, good to keep looking.

With love,

[Vivien]

So, is there an I in reality, here, right now?

[IainB]

Hi V,

I might try and change my reply strategy as I have a habit of making notes throughout the day, then not getting round to replying in the evening before it's the new day for you. I will reply at the point of intensive looking and seeing, or whatnot.

Yesterday it occured that I can just 'this moment' exactly as it is. Not 'be' this moment, as that implies separation.

So, is there an I in reality, here, right now?

As the ever changing evolving world/life unfolds I am triggered to look again again again, and of course I do not find Ian.

Later I noted:

I've done everything (trauma, conventional therapy, fringe therapies, radical peer counselling, drugs, organised religion, addiction, recovery work, radical personal development, moderate and radical non duality, ayahuasca/bufo/iboga) yet I'm not attached to any of those things. They don't constrain or define my being one bit. They are simply a beautiful part of the tapestry. I can't find any conscious barriers to gating?

Life is vivid, flowing, a unique set of experiences known here, and all not requiring a seperate being to be had.

I did enjoy looking at the no doer stuff earlier...like even when I think I'm indulging in knowing there is no doer to get away with doing something 'bad'...at that time there is no being with no volition.

All the above deviates from your guided point. I will get back to that today.

[IainB]

So, is there an I in reality, here, right now?

Nothing big later today. It still occured to look frequently, several times each hour. I was unable to find I each time.

I will go out shortly to music with my housemate so wanted to report in further now.

With love.

[Vivien]

Now, let's go back noticing thoughts. All thoughts that contains I/me/my/mine, or relate to I in any way.

Are you doing/thinking/making those thoughts happen?

Vivien

[IainB]

Are you doing/thinking/making those thoughts happen?

I enjoyed going back to this today.

When I became aware of thought especially that referencing I/me/my/mine this was followed by looking.

This took place when I was doing normal day to day things, sometimes when I was busy at work, when I was resting and dozing later in the day.

I fell into looking for the I/me/my/mine. Perhaps I go again for another cycle and instead ask if I am doing thought as much as possible.

Knowing there is no volition to thoughts is known, but not in an enduringly ever present way - it has fallen into the back drop since I looked at this intently a few weeks ago.

With love.

[Vivien]

Please look at the question carefully. It wasn't about whether there is an I thinking or not, rather, are YOU doing it?

Whatever you are (we don't know) are you doing it?

[IainB]

Please look at the question carefully. It wasn't about whether there is an I thinking or not, rather, are YOU doing it?

Great pointer and great clarification.

Whatever you are (we don't know) are you doing it?

There's nothing around the edge of thought, underneath it or around the back of it that is doing it that I can see or find.

I look straight and direct again and again for this doing.

There is a delicious breath of fresh air in there: I'm not doing thought. This is glimpsed rather than some enduring realisation or shift.

Of course, if I was doing thought, I wouldn't choose the bad thoughts.

Thoughts can be juicy and exciting...there does feel like a connection there.

With love,

[Vivien]

There is a delicious breath of fresh air in there: I'm not doing thought. This is glimpsed rather than some enduring realisation or shift.

Do you expect that there will or should be a permanent shift of always seeing that you are not thinking thoughts? Always, all the time from that on?

Maybe it's time to investigate your expectations.

What is 'waking up', or awakening mean to you?
What is it like? what are the signs of it?
How would you recognize it?

Vivien

[IainB]

Do you expect that there will or should be a permanent shift of always seeing that you are not thinking thoughts? Always, all the time from that on?

Of course not. Thoughts come, and at times they are believed.

For me this links to when you previously guided "further work will definitely be needed. Those patterns won't go away by themselves, and whenever they are activated, the self will be believed again, temporarily."

What I would like is to know there is no seperate self clearly enough to the extent that I feel able to guide someone else to that same knowing. So that doubt is gone enough to facilitate this (whether I ever guide or not is irrelevant, I suggest this as a useful level to achieve before the conversation here ends).

As you say, there may be temporary return to belief, but a change has taken place and further work can take place. I like work.

Maybe it's time to investigate your expectations.

This really cannot be done enough. It's so useful to see where I (or anyone for that matter) might be stuck, and held back by expectations.

What is 'waking up', or awakening mean to you?
What is it like? what are the signs of it?
How would you recognize it?

This is slightly slippery territory, before answering can I say, one of the reasons I love LU is because it's "here to help you see through the illusion of a separate self". It offers this as a starting point, rather than an end point. I'm not neccesarily after 'awakening' but simply clarity around this illusion. The other reasons I love LU is because it's largely non-hierarchical and non-transactional.

I've run out of time now but it will be fun to answer your question about how I might express awakening later.

[IainB]

What is 'waking up', or awakening mean to you?
What is it like? what are the signs of it?
How would you recognize it?

I didn't get the time to make a fuller response but perhaps briefer is better.

Awakening is simply what I am, here and now. This alive moment. Alive-ness.

No different for me than anyone else. Not something 'attained' but rather what is already present, here and now.

Being reconciled that nothing is missing, there is nothing more to seek.

The belief in, or being hypnotised by thought, is over: thought is 'divorced', but is 'remained with' for the sake of the children (thought is going nowhere, but that relationship with thought is forever changed).

Knowing there is only now, and no choice or chooser is relevent.

The idea that some 'teacher' can deliver something 'missing' becomes redundant, ridiculous really. Such a teacher would simply be appearing in alive-knowing-now, same as any object.

It's instinctively known/recognised. I am this aliveness of all that appears and is known.

Again though...I'm here to be clear on that illusion, please.

With love.

[Vivien]

OK, so you have a pretty clear idea/ image how it should be. So you are after this idea you've conceptualized from all those videos and books. I"m not saying that this is bad, we all do it. but it's a HUGE hindrance. Why?
Because you are after your idealized image as you imagine it to be. You might say it's not imagination, but rather how it is. But what if it's not? What if it is all conceptualization based on what you've hear, read, filtered through your beliefs and desires?

Every expectation is a ‘hindrance’ in realizing what IS. Expectations result in comparison. Comparison between what is happening, and the imagined expectation. Thus what has been seen can be thrown out or ignored, since it doesn’t match the expected outcome.

The thing is that it cannot be know in advance how it will be. Why? Because all expectations come on behalf of a separate self, who is always in a search for peace, happiness, lack of fear and suffering. We simply cannot imagine it, since we cannot step outside from the separate self’s perspective. We can only imagine it within the dream of me. The illusionary me is simply unable to imagine how it would be if it were discovered to be just a fictional character and not a reality. It can only imagine what it wants for itself.

The reason for those questions were to find out what expectations you have how it would be like or feel like when the separate self is seen through. Many have the idea that it’s a special state of bliss, happiness, peace and constant ease; and a happy state has to be present as evidence of having had the realization. But the realization is often quite subtle, and it can be hidden by expectations. When there is any sort of expectation, there is a comparison between the preconceived ideas of what it should be like and what is seen, with the conclusion “This not IT”.

Can you be open to let go off your intellect and all your understanding of it, and just let this inquiry flow without any comparison, analysis? Without the intellect?

Can you have an open mind of NOT-KNOWING anything about this topic?

Awakening is simply what I am, here and now. This alive moment. Alive-ness.

It really sounds that you are after a new identity.

But what do you need an identity for?

And more importantly, what is it that needs a new identity?

Vivien