The Gate

Hi Warissem,

I am so sorry. The submit button did not seem to react and then I suddenly realized that it was just kind of unusual delay.
Now the same post is many times posted and I can't delete them. Sorry I couldn't foresee that. It deed not happen before that the button did not react immediately.

Best wishes
Hel

Good evening

My first impression is: yes. But a second thought tells me it might be just the fantasy of an "I".

Give an answer for this question after having looked at direct experience :

Is there someone to whom thoughts are appearing ? Look

About the exercise, you have done good observations.

It's still a big challenge to remind myself to move into direct experience. I am completely absorbed with thoughts.

Observe your daily activities and look if there is an I, a you, a separate self doing things ?

Kind regards

Warissem

Good evening,

Is there someone to whom thoughts are appearing ? Look

That's the difficulty. They just exist and I can't say to whom they appear. They seem to appear to me but by going deeper I can't say who "me" is.

Observe your daily activities and look if there is an I, a you, a separate self doing things ?

Today I did a lot of handicraft. I watched my hands and I tried to watch myself, my mind. When I was completely absorbed with the designing it was as if I had forgotten myself. There was just kind of a flow.
I don't know if there is an I. It feels like this. But "a separate self" as you mentioned can't really be named. It would need another name then my name, then my I, because it would be something different.
I will go on with this looking for a me. Something just doesn't fit. I feel so much like an identity doing things. I will go on with observing me.

Best wishes

Hel

Hi Helga

That's the difficulty. They just exist and I can't say to whom they appear.

Yes, a big fat yes.

They seem to appear to me but by going deeper I can't say who "me" is.

It is a thought story : in direct experience there is no doubt, even it is here then you can describe it, even it is not here you cannot see it.
There is seeing these words on the screen : yes there is knowing (in the sense of being aware) of these words : is there an “I”, Helga or some entity hidden in the body or in the head seeing them?
There is understanding of these words and there is knowing (being aware) of this understanding : does this need an I to do it ?

Today I did a lot of handicraft. I watched my hands and I tried to watch myself, my mind.

It is not you doing handicraft : the hands are operating through knowledge acquired about how to do it, is it clear ?
Are they your hands or are they part of the body ?
You said “I watched myself” : can you describe this self for me ?
“and my mind” : can you describe this mind for me ?

When I was completely absorbed with the designing it was as if I had forgotten myself. There was just kind of a flow.

Is there really an “I” absorbed ? Let me know about this “I” which is absorbed and has forgotten the “myself”. What is the difference between this “I” and this “myself” ?

I don't know if there is an I. It feels like this.

Describe for me the first “I” and the second “I”.

But "a separate self" as you mentioned can't really be named.

Aha, let me know about this “separate self” : what is it in your own words ?

It would need another name then my name, then my I, because it would be something different.

Then there is a you which owns a name and an “I”, a lot of subjects here : you need definitely to look at direct experience to give answers to my questions. There is no other way to see through the illusion of a separate self. Giving answers through the mind is a waist of time for both of us.
Direct experience is : hearing, seeing, smelling, tasting, touching (sensations). Thoughts and concepts are used only to communicate during this dialog.

I will go on with this looking for a me. Something just doesn't fit. I feel so much like an identity doing things. I will go on with observing me.

It is not about observing « me » : it is about looking every where with your five senses open and answer to this question : is there a you, a separate self, a separate entity living life OR is there only life living itself ? LOOK.

Give answers to all the bue questions : one by one after having looked at direct experience.

Kind regards

Warissem

Hi Warissem,

mind-blowing questions....., so it took me a while to find the words and there is still not the feeling that those thoughts are articulated sufficiently.

is there an “I”, Helga or some entity hidden in the body or in the head seeing them?

Honestly there is no knowing in me. It always was and is a model how all is functioning. There is no entity but responsibility and decision making that seem to have a reference point.

does this need an I to do it ?

No

the hands are operating through knowledge acquired about how to do it, is it clear ?

Yes this is obvious.

Are they your hands or are they part of the body ?

Part of the body.

You said “I watched myself” : can you describe this self for me ?

A description of this self is just not easy to do. It's one and the same person. I wonder how I split them in an I and a myself. This self is a thought about an I and a body, an assumption.

and my mind” : can you describe this mind for me

The mind is this center where all decisions are made, the judgements, the knowing about right and wrong. In direct experience a location of this mind can't be found. It's all thought.

Is there really an “I” absorbed ? Let me know about this “I” which is absorbed and has forgotten the “myself”.

This "I" is only an assumption, a hypothesis. Too many thoughts are circulating around a me. So not being aware of these thoughts seems like forgetting the identity.

What is the difference between this “I” and this “myself” ?

It's a splitting of my activities into an observer and the observed. It's a construction, a model.

I don't know if there is an I. It feels like this.
Describe for me the first “I” and the second “I”.

The first "I" is this thinking about itself (the second "I") . It's splitting the idea of identity in two entities.
But if this first "I" is a thought it's only a cascade of thoughts.

Aha, let me know about this “separate self” : what is it in your own words ?

The decision point, the idea about a center.

is there a you, a separate self, a separate entity living life OR is there only life living itself ? LOOK.

With all the thoughts about "I", "myself", "me" there is no more certainty that there is a separate self. But there is also no certainty that it's only life living itself. Complex decisions are made, planning is done. All this has consequences. From moment to moment there is only the experience of thoughts.

Best wishes
Hel

Hi Helga

Honestly there is no knowing in me. It always was and is a model how all is functioning.

It could be a model of functioning but it is not a you. Is there knowing of these words on the screen ? Is there a you knowing them or the you is known ?

There is no entity but responsibility and decision making that seem to have a reference point.

How does responsibility works ? Give two examples.
How is the decision made ? give two examples.


You said “I watched myself” : can you describe this self for me ?
Would you give an answer through direct experience.

The mind is this center where all decisions are made, the judgements, the knowing about right and wrong.

Do you see that the answer is a train of thoughts.

In direct experience a location of this mind can't be found. It's all thought.

Yes.

The decision point, the idea about a center.

Then, the separate self is an idea (your own words) : it means it does not exist in plain view.

With all the thoughts about "I", "myself", "me" there is no more certainty that there is a separate self. But there is also no certainty that it's only life living itself. Complex decisions are made, planning is done. All this has consequences. From moment to moment there is only the experience of thoughts.

There is an exercise about decision :

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?

Kind regards

Warissem

Hi Warissem,

Is there knowing of these words on the screen ? Is there a you knowing them or the you is known ?

Asked so directly the knowing of you ("or the you is known ")
comes before the knowing of these words. It's happening.

How does responsibility works ? Give two examples

1. When I take care of my old mother with Alzheimer I am responsible for her in case she starts doing crazy things. I can't leave her alone. I am responsible for her care, that she drinks enough, that she sees the doctor when necessary and so on.

2.I am in a hurry and forget to look back while parking out and hit a person with my car. Then I am responsible for the injuries of that person, even if she came surprisingly around the corner. But okay, responsibilities are thoughts too. The direct experience is only the sound of the crash, the sensing of shattering.

How is the decision made ? give two examples.

1. Again my mother. Let's say I am fed up with all the work being connected with care work. I don't want to stand up at night anymore when she starts to get out of bed. After a lot of thinking I finally decide to place her into a nursing home. I know that she will be lost there and her condition will deteriorate. No one will go with her to the bathroom at night. She will have to wear nappies at night and it will be very humiliating for her. It's an awful decision to place her there (and I will feel guilty for the rest of my life). How is the decision made?
By thinking about the future, the causalties. By looking at my situation and finally calling the nursing home.
But okay, direct experience will be only thoughts about my mother and me and then taking up of the phone with my hands. This is also a direct experience.

2. Again the parking lot. Let's say I harmed a person or another car but I don't want to be held responsible. As nobody is around I decide to leave without calling police or medical assistance (it's a bad example-I know, I would for sure do everything to help- but I want to give an example that really shows bad decisions). How is the decision made? It is made after evaluating the situation with thoughts.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?

I don't know. It's really unknown to me. It happens.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?

No. Simple actions with my hands seem to work on their own (like handicraft). But complex decisions seem different (like my examples above).

What is it that is controlling the hand?

Nothing. The same with my typing at the moment. My hands know what to do seemingly expressing my thoughts while writing.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No. It's just an event happening.

Can anything be found that makes the hand move?

No. Not the movement.
The starting feels like it is caused by your invitation.

How is the decision made?

Difficult. As said before it's somehow like having decided to follow your instructions. But this is not really the case. There is nothing about at what time, what table, how often. All this happens. Again also this typing is happening.

I have written a lot. Thank you for your patience with me!

Best wishes

Hel

Good evening

Asked so directly the knowing of you ("or the you is known ")
comes before the knowing of these words. It's happening.

I pose again the question : Are you aware of these words on the screen ?
Is there a you knowing these words OR the you is known ?

1. When I take care of my old mother with Alzheimer I am responsible for her in case she starts doing crazy things. I can't leave her alone. I am responsible for her care, that she drinks enough, that she sees the doctor when necessary and so on.

2.I am in a hurry and forget to look back while parking out and hit a person with my car. Then I am responsible for the injuries of that person, even if she came surprisingly around the corner. But okay, responsibilities are thoughts too. The direct experience is only the sound of the crash, the sensing of shattering.

The first example refers to care taking which is normally a job for a nurse. Anyway, there is a happening of taking care of a mother.
In the second example, it is about driving rules which must be respected.

Sure there are thoughts going on about social rules, family, driving rules,feeling of guilt, …. Innate and acquired conditionings are operating. Even seeing that there is no you, no separate self, this conditionings will continue to operate.
Now, LOOK if there is a “you” which is in play or things are happening as they are ?

1. Again my mother. Let's say I am fed up with all the work being connected with care work. I don't want to stand up at night anymore when she starts to get out of bed. After a lot of thinking I finally decide to place her into a nursing home. I know that she will be lost there and her condition will deteriorate. No one will go with her to the bathroom at night. She will have to wear nappies at night and it will be very humiliating for her. It's an awful decision to place her there (and I will feel guilty for the rest of my life). How is the decision made?
By thinking about the future, the causalties. By looking at my situation and finally calling the nursing home.

Do you see that it is a thought story ?

But okay, direct experience will be only thoughts about my mother and me and then taking up of the phone with my hands. This is also a direct experience.

Yes, direct experience is seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and touching (sensations). Always come back to direct experience.

2. Again the parking lot. Let's say I harmed a person or another car but I don't want to be held responsible. As nobody is around I decide to leave without calling police or medical assistance (it's a bad example-I know, I would for sure do everything to help- but I want to give an example that really shows bad decisions). How is the decision made? It is made after evaluating the situation with thoughts.

Let’s say that decision is made after evaluation of the pros and cons : is there a you evaluating ?

No. Simple actions with my hands seem to work on their own (like handicraft). But complex decisions seem different (like my examples above).

All decision is a choice between two or more alternatives. Do you see that alternatives are thoughts arising without a help of you, a separate self ? The chosen alternative has also arisen as a thought then is there a you as a chooser or a decision maker ?

I have written a lot. Thank you for your patience with me!

You are welcome.

Warissem

Hi Warissem,

I pose again the question : Are you aware of these words on the screen ?
Is there a you knowing these words OR the you is known ?

I am aware of seeing. Nothing else. Only seeing.
The you is known. There is awareness of a you (= "I"). There is kind of emptiness before the "I" comes up.

Sure there are thoughts going on about social rules, family, driving rules,feeling of guilt, …. Innate and acquired conditionings are operating. Even seeing that there is no you, no separate self, this conditionings will continue to operate.
Now, LOOK if there is a “you” which is in play or things are happening as they are ?

It's mere happening accompanied by thoughts, thoughts, thoughts.

Do you see that it is a thought story ?

Yes. It's obvious. It's all thoughts.

Let’s say that decision is made after evaluation of the pros and cons : is there a you evaluating ?

That's the essence. No I can't say that there's a you evaluating. Direct experience shows up and often it is surprising what decisions happen.

All decision is a choice between two or more alternatives. Do you see that alternatives are thoughts arising without a help of you, a separate self ? The chosen alternative has also arisen as a thought then is there a you as a chooser or a decision maker ?

Yes I can see that. Thoughts are there like background music. There is now a thought coming up that I like too much listening to this kind of "thought-music". My whole identity is this kind of "music". So nothing is in control with this music. The music plays, the melody is there and no one has anything to do with it even if the song is about an "I".

One problem remains: Often there is clearness when you send your questions. In my day to day life I can integrate a lot of that. But this terroizing thoughts need too often a reminder that they are just nothing to take serious as they are like mere Fata Morganas.

Please tell me when I take too much of your time.

Best regards
Hel

Hi Helga

I am glad to read your answers, things are being clearer for you.

I am aware of seeing. Nothing else. Only seeing.

Yes, great.

The you is known. There is awareness of a you (= "I"). There is kind of emptiness before the "I" comes up.

Yes, this emptiness full of presence is the knowing principle, being aware. It is not personal.
Do you see Helga and its whole story as you see this “I” ?
Is it clear that this emptiness (as you call it) is the knowing, that there is no entity or self doing the seeing ?

It's mere happening accompanied by thoughts, thoughts, thoughts.

Yes, thoughts also are among the happenings. Feelings are happening. Appearances are happenings. Are they happening to you or is it just a flow of happenings which come and go ?

That's the essence. No I can't say that there's a you evaluating. Direct experience shows up and often it is surprising what decisions happen.

Yes, everything is happening

Yes I can see that. Thoughts are there like background music. There is now a thought coming up that I like too much listening to this kind of "thought-music". My whole identity is this kind of "music". So nothing is in control with this music. The music plays, the melody is there and no one has anything to do with it even if the song is about an "I".

Wow, when I read this :"“I like too much …” is a thought", you are clear about this stuff.

One problem remains: Often there is clearness when you send your questions. In my day to day life I can integrate a lot of that.

For whom, a problem remains ? It is not Your life, it is Life showing itself as what is.

But this terroizing thoughts need too often a reminder that they are just nothing to take serious as they are like mere Fata Morganas.

Thoughts are terrorizing, they are innocent : all is about their interpretation.
Are thoughts arising for you or are they just seen as clouds in the sky ?

Please tell me when I take too much of your time.

Is there yesterday outside of thoughts ?
Is there a future outside of thoughts ?
Is there a time outside of thoughts ?

Best wishes

Warissem

Hi Warissem

Do you see Helga and its whole story as you see this “I” ?

Not immediately. The story is dominating.

Is it clear that this emptiness (as you call it) is the knowing, that there is no entity or self doing the seeing ?

The emptiness is my background. There is still the thought that it can't be that simple.

Are they happening to you or is it just a flow of happenings which come and go ?

It's a coming and going. There is no continuity.
But it is mixed with this emptiness. There is no clarity that it is just a flow of happenings.

Are thoughts arising for you or are they just seen as clouds in the sky ?

Both. There is very often this second thought about why again these stupid thoughts that want to explain life for me.
But sometimes there is pure distance.

Is there yesterday outside of thoughts ?

Difficult. Directly said: no

Is there a future outside of thoughts ?

The same difficulty. But future is thought. It's defined by
the system we use and by our memories: All of them are thoughts.

Is there a time outside of thoughts ?

More difficult: Honestly said: No.


Tomorrow (thought of a future) I will be on tour. So any reply from me (thought of an entity) will come on sunday. I hope this is okay. In case I have time I will respond earlier.

Best regards
Hel

Hi Helga

Not immediately. The story is dominating.

Come back to direct experience, as often as you can, don’t take the train of thoughts.

The emptiness is my background. There is still the thought that it can't be that simple.

It is and it has no need for a you. Don’t believe thoughts. I assure you : it is that simple. It is shining all along. Notice for yourself : seeing is happening, hearing is happening, thinking is happening, … This is It, so simple.

It's a coming and going. There is no continuity.
But it is mixed with this emptiness. There is no clarity that it is just a flow of happenings.

Yes, great there is no separation, no frontier between awareness (being knowing) and all happenings.

Both. There is very often this second thought about why again these stupid thoughts that want to explain life for me.
But sometimes there is pure distance.

There is no you which needs explanations. LOOK


You have done good observations about time.

Tomorrow (thought of a future) I will be on tour. So any reply from me (thought of an entity) will come on sunday. I hope this is okay. In case I have time I will respond earlier.

No worry for that, enjoy the trip.

Feel free to discuss any arisen doubt about this stuff.

Best wishes

Warissem

Hi Warissem,

back again.

It is and it has no need for a you. Don’t believe thoughts. I assure you : it is that simple. It is shining all along. Notice for yourself : seeing is happening, hearing is happening, thinking is happening, … This is It, so simple.

It is that simple......
This is still not something I feel acquainted with. And I am often not sure about it. Mostly I am lost in thoughts....in should and shouldn't. Sometimes there is this kind of reframing: A thought coming up that these are mere thoughts.
And there are those little breaks, that little stillness.

Yesterday morning I just felt like laughing. That simple....I repeated this many times for myself. But then came the thoughts about past (what I should have done in the past) and a future, that things should be different and so on.
Why do people share the same memories about a past if there is no past...only thinking about past? Stuff like that can drive me crazy. Even the remembering is a thought. Only this stillness is outside. But I want situations in my life differently. This little stillness in the background, is literally nothing, not taking sides or giving orientation. Nothing that gives answers to the challenges of my life. There is still this person that reflects and evaluates situations and decisions but somehow sensing a neutral and silent background.

Best wishes

Hel

Hi Helga

It is that simple......
This is still not something I feel acquainted with.

There is no you to feel acquainted with.

And I am often not sure about it.

This thought is arising in It, in awareness.

Mostly I am lost in thoughts....in should and shouldn't. Sometimes there is this kind of reframing: A thought coming up that these are mere thoughts.

Thoughts come and go et there is no you to be lost.

And there are those little breaks, that little stillness.

Being knowing is continuous, unbroken. Stillness is here with thoughts or without thoughts.

Yesterday morning I just felt like laughing. That simple....I repeated this many times for myself. But then came the thoughts about past (what I should have done in the past) and a future, that things should be different and so on.

Thoughts about the past and the future are arising now.

Why do people share the same memories about a past if there is no past...only thinking about past?

Why do you want to know ? Who wants to know ?

Stuff like that can drive me crazy.

There is no you to be crazy.

Even the remembering is a thought.

Yes, great.

Only this stillness is outside.

It is outside of what ?

But I want situations in my life differently.

Is there still a you ? Look.

This little stillness in the background, is literally nothing, not taking sides or giving orientation. Nothing that gives answers to the challenges of my life.

What are the limits of this stillness ?
Yes, it is not a thing and there is silence. Don’t expect that It will speak : just rest as this stillness as long as you can.

There is still this person that reflects and evaluates situations and decisions but somehow sensing a neutral and silent background.

Hum, a person ? where is it located ? will you describe it for me ?

Best wishes

Warissem

Hi Warissem,

your clarity is very helpful. It gives this "still me" a lot of confidence.

[quote]Why do you want to know ? Who wants to know ?
[/quote]
Why? Because society treats me as an identity. There is this playing according to their rules. So there is this feeling of being what they see in me.

Who? Nobody. Of course nobody. At the core there is this emptiness. This emptiness helps to stay in the moment.

[quote]It is outside of what ?[/quote]
That was an incorrect wording. This stillness is beyond thoughts or this stillness has a different level is a better wording.

[quote]Is there still a you ? Look.
[/quote]
There never was one. But this shift to realize this through and through has not yet arisen.

[quote]What are the limits of this stillness ?[/quote]
There are none.

[quote]Hum, a person ? where is it located ? will you describe it for me ?[/quote]
......impossible to find a location.


Too often there is this train of thoughts that dominates. Your input gives a lot of clarity. "I" work with your pointers the whole day and try to always concentrate on direct experience.
Thank you so much for the time you spend with me. It must be frustrating sometimes. What shall "I" do when not passing through the gate? Shall "I" just stop bothering you? You have given the experiences and the questions. This organism here typing will work on that and is confidently awaiting your answer.

Best wishes
Hel