Extra ordinary

[Anisha]

Hi Stacy,

this investigation felt easy.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

No, there is no actual connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror – just thoughts based on habit suggesting a link between the two. Especially initially, immediately after opening the eyes and bringing up the question, it seemed completely absurd that anyone could ever construct a connection between sensations and this display of shapes and colours.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

The shape labelled ‘hand’ in the mirror looked alien, bizarre. Just like in the previous step, there obviously was no real connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror. I could see, however, how, as the hand kept moving, the mind wanted to go back into the habit of constructing a bridge for identification.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

Only thoughts suggesting it. But – even more so than when looking at the mirror image of the ‘hand’ shape – the mental pull towards correlating sensations and the image of ‘movement’ was evident.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all? Or are there only colours and shapes?

Only colours and shapes. And thoughts trying to throw their weight around.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

Only habitual thoughts suggesting it – how could anything be known about something that cannot be experienced? Hard to believe that we’ve ever fallen for this nonsense!

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

The idea of ‘body’ is a concept, a habit, a boring addiction. Sensations is all there is.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?

Again: only sensations (plus thoughts generated by habit and clinging to said habit).

Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all? Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?

Haha, what is labelled ‘walking’ is just another silly illusion! There is no way of knowing that there is a body, let alone that such a ‘body’ was moving through 'space'. There’s only sensations of pressure, mass, friction, and changes in the visual field that are interpreted as ‘movement of an object through space’. Essentially an elaborate fabrication.

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?

See above – nothing but thoughts.

Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

No. ‘Walking’ is fiction. Only sensations (again: see above).

Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

The idea that sensations could have location seems increasingly absurd – ‘I’ cut ‘my finger’ today, but ultimately, all that can actually be known about what happened is that there was a sensation which the mind rushed to identify as ‘mine’, assign a location (‘finger’) and a meaning (‘injury’, ‘pain’). All there actually was, though, is sensation. It is the same with ‘going through the room’ – pure fiction, from start to finish! There is no ‘going’, and there is no ‘room’. There is pressure, friction, colors. That is all there actually is, and all that can truthfully be stated about the experience.


Something I’ve been wondering about: all of the above is evident when I look at the facts (i.e. only consider the information coming from sensations). But the habitual delusional way of being and the non-delusional way of looking are currently see-sawing throughout the day, and if ‘I’ am not on it, the mind will all too readily revert to its default delusional mode. So how does this work - does the balance eventually tip and the non-delusional mode then becomes the default?

Love,
Jana

[Anastacia42]

Hi Jana

the mental pull towards correlating sensations and the image of ‘movement’ was evident.

Only habit. It has no power.

So how does this work - does the balance eventually tip and the non-delusional mode then becomes the default?

As far as I can tell this is a lather, rinse, repeat operation. As long as we're "alive"(whatever that is)
there is the possibility of trying to identify with the story of self. It's highly unlikely though, once you've seen through it.

Some of us guide to keep us in touch with the truth.

Others have a story that there's some end goal of never re identifying. I'm not sure if that's real or just another false mountain to climb. You'll see various opinions & experiences. Some pursue further guiding through the "Ten Fetters."

You can read about that here:

https://smile.amazon.com/Finding-Awaken ... 124&sr=8-3

And on www. findingawakening.com

Some of us have started a group to look into these. I can invite you.

Let's do Time & Memory and maybe you'll like to answer the traditional "final" questions.

Time Exercise

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?


Loving,

~ Stacy

[Anisha]

Hi Stacy,

Only habit. It has no power.

Yeah, thanks for pointing that out. I need to keep reminding myself whenever the gravity of habit attempts to drag the mind into its orbit.

As far as I can tell this is a lather, rinse, repeat operation. As long as we're "alive"(whatever that is) there is the possibility of trying to identify with the story of self. It's highly unlikely though, once you've seen through it.

Ok, good, yes, that resonates.

Some pursue further guiding through the "Ten Fetters."

Oh yes, I’ve come across that before.

Some of us have started a group to look into these. I can invite you.

Yes, please!

Let's do Time & Memory and maybe you'll like to answer the traditional "final" questions.

Haha, I feel rather half-baked and far from ‘done’, but I’ll leave it up to you and your expertise if and when I should be ready to tackle any ‘final’ questions.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

No. That is a mental construct.

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

Nope.

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

Only thought that constructs that impression.

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Something that is ‘always here’ can, by definition, not be moving.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

None.

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Forever? How could something without beginning or end be gauged?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

See above – it doesn’t start, and it doesn’t end.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

It doesn’t actually become 'the past', only thoughts creating the impression. (... this is another of the habitual tendencies that still feel quite sticky, however, even though it is seen through to some extent)

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

Just thoughts, mental impressions.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

The only thing that can be found in actual experience is change, expressed through fluctuating sensations. The concept of time is a product of thought.


Funny, that :)

Much love,
Jana

[Anastacia42]

Beautiful, Jana. Just beautiful.

There will be a multitude of false thoughts based on the idea of some "self" to question.

The group looking at Ten Fetters is connecting through Facebook. Please either post or PM your FB name, Or go friend me, StacyAnnClark in Colorado.

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Sure, there's a thought story, but is that a "self?"

And now....

Memory Exercise

Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened. That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

Please don’t go to thought explanations, but just let a memory be there, and look at it.

Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say - but what actually is.

What is memory exactly?

What is the memory ‘made of’?

WHEN does the memory appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?

WHEN does the future thought appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

If there is difference and how is that difference is known exactly?



Loving,

~ Stacy

[Anisha]

Or go friend me, StacyAnnClark in Colorado.

Great, thank you, Stacy, I will do that! :)

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? Sure, there's a thought story, but is that a "self?"

No, no, and no. There’s a compelling thought story, and I can only speculate how or why that has become our species’ default belief and mode of relating to Reality, but in actuality, there is no such separate entity. Never was, never will be.

Memory Exercise

This one was a bit of a mind-bender, haha!

What is memory exactly?

Memory is a thought about sensations/thoughts/experiences that are considered to be happening ‘not now’, but in an assumed ‘past’ – which investigation has shown to be a fallacy not based in actual experience/Reality.

What is the memory ‘made of’?

Hmm. It feels to me as if one of the main ingredients in memory was emotional content attached to sensations, i.e. a narrative (= thoughts) based on identification with an assumed ‘experiencer’ (‘I’, self) tagged onto actual experience (= sensations). That sounds a bit convoluted. I guess the short version of it would be ‘memories are made of thoughts’.

WHEN does the memory appear?

Is this question asking for a ‘when’ as in ‘at what time’? Then the answer would be: now.
If the ‘when’ is meant to ask for causal components, prerequisites or the like, what is valid for ‘thought’ is valid for ‘memory’ (= just another label for what appears to be a ‘special kind’ of thought) as well: memories arise and pass on their own accord.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

There is no substantial difference. The only superficial, ‘relative’, yet essentially deluded difference would be that a memory seems ‘more personal’, i.e. is based on the belief that there was a ‘self’ which experienced (or thought) something in a not-now ‘past’. Both ‘general thought’ and ‘memory thought’ tell a story, though – so ultimately, I can’t find any acutal difference between the two.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

There is no way of knowing that! As I said before, it’s all based on assumptions, fallacies and delusion, from start to finish.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?

Essentially the same a memory thought is ‘made of’: it is a thought about sensations/thoughts/experiences that are considered to be happening ‘not now’, but in a presumed ‘future’ – which investigation has shown to be a fallacy not based in actual experience/Reality.

WHEN does the future thought appear?

Again, if this question is asking for ‘at what time’, the answer would be: now.
If it is asking for causes and conditions: the future thought appears and ceases on its own accord. Both the memory thought and the future thought require the assumption of a ‘self in time’ – the memory thought telling a story about that fictional entity in a ‘past time’, the future thought telling a story about that entity in a ‘time yet to come’.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

There is no essential difference, only a relative, deluded one: the ‘future’ thought extrapolates a false understanding of reality into a hypothetical time ‘not now, but yet to come’.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

The idea that a ‘future’ thought could refer to anything that ‘will happen’ is absurd and based on a good handful of mistaken assumptions. Hence it obviously cannot be known.

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
If there is difference and how is that difference is known exactly?

Essentially: there is none. Both are ‘just thoughts’, and both are based on false beliefs. To the deluded mind, it feels as if the ‘past’ thought referred to a ‘fact’ that ocurred in the ‘past’ or was experienced by a ‘self’ in said 'bygone time', whereas the ‘future’ thought refers to a potential happening in a hypothetical ‘time to come’.


My mind is in a knot now – these questions really pull the rug out under you! :D
(...hopefully one of those knots that self-unravel when you pull at both ends of the rope)


Much love,
Jana

[Anastacia42]

Good mooring/ afternoon,Jana,

Pretty much perfect. What you're calling "knots" are more a product of your mind unwinding the knots it has been in all of your life. It can be a bit chaotic.

Did you finish the pointers in the DropBox? Those are optional, but they'll help you unwind more lies.

We guides are offering support meetings. You are invited. If you want to receive these emails, you'll tell Vince.

Hi All, Here is a reminder for our two-weekly meetup.

Also (below) are the details for the Monthly ones.

Our next one is: June 20, 2022 05:00 AM Canberra, Melbourne, Sydney
Then fortnightly
Jul 4, 2022 05:00 AM
Jul 18, 2022 05:00 AM
Aug 1, 2022 05:00 AM
Aug 15, 2022 05:00 AM

Join Zoom Meeting

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86991485768?p ... 12Um5DQT09
Meeting ID: Passcode: 083035" original_font_attr="-1" original_line_height_attr="" style="">869 9148 5768

Passcode: 083035

Here are the details for the monthly one;

Third weekend of every month 

Saturday 18th of June 6 pm-8 pm British time, 

Sunday, 19th of June 10 am-12 am British time

You can join both days or one depending your time zone.

You can calculate your time zone here:
https://dateful.com/time-zone-converter

The meetings will be led by Liberation Unleashed guides.

No agenda, no promises or expectations, just being and sharing together.

Here is a link to join

Join Zoom Meeting

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/3718929853...

Meeting ID: 371 892 9853

Passcode: HmbSF4

Sooooo...

Hon, you sound "cooked." Are you ready to answer "final" questions? Your answers will be shared with other guides, who may have questions. Ready?

Loving,
Stacy

[Anisha]

Hello again, Stacy :)

Thanks for the links - and for your patience and guidance and support! It's been such a fruitful and interesting 'conversation' (if we want to call it that), I'm so grateful for it all.

I haven't finished all the pointers in the files yet, but will keep working through them.

Okay, bring on those final questions, then! Happy to have a go :)


Much love,
Jana

[Anastacia42]

Great. Here you go!


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving,

~ Stacy

[Anisha]

...just a quick note to thank you for the questions – it's a busy weekend here, so I won't get around to answering them now, but I'll be on it as soon as the busyness has subsided!

Sending much love across the ocean,
Jana

[Anastacia42]

Very well. I'll see your replies when you post.

Loving,
Stacy

[Anisha]

Hi there, Stacy -

here we go, then:

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, no such entity can be found.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate self is based on the identification with a collection of sensations we have become accustomed to calling ‘our body’ – a temporary individual body ‘possessed’ by us, different than and separate from other’s bodies – and with a stream of thoughts we consider to be the creations of ‘our mind’ and which suggest and reinforce the idea of being the owner and controller of both the body and the mind that appears to be inhibiting the body.

I can only speculate about when exactly the illusion of a separate self starts, but would assume that it is connected to that stage in infancy when the primary focus changes from internal to external and the experiential landscape becomes increasingly differentiated into ‘me’ and ‘not me’ – a way of perceiving that is socially and culturally encouraged and reinforced and, hence, becomes the habitual, default way of experiencing reality (or the materialistic version of Reality that has come to be accepted as the consensus ‘truth’).

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Seeing through the illusion of a separate self feels relieving, liberating, simplifying. I had caught glimpses of this before I started this dialogue, so to some extent I had already known or at least intuited the illusion for what it was, but the dialoge has certainly helped to make it clearer and has allowed the ‘seeing’ to pervade experience to a greater degree.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I’m afraid I can’t pinpoint any such event or aspect – not least because it felt less like being ‘pushed over’ than like a gradual process of clarification. The most visceral shift ocurred with a moment of insight into no-self, I think – it didn’t feel like a huge thing happening at the time, but certainly noticeable and, looking back, did a good job at undermining certain habits of perception.

Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Decision is a mental contruct, not something that can be validated through direct experience. Experientially, what is called a ‘decision’ appears to be akin to a configuration of causes and conditions giving rise to an occurence (commonly labelled an ‘action’ based on ‘decision’). There is no ‘I’ that could be ‘making’ decisions. Things happen.

A fittingly silly example: I recently did a few paint jobs around the house. The claim that ‘I’ decided to do it in the first place and chose the colours based on an urge or some ‘creative vision’ I may have had runs into several logical problems, if it is accepted that there is neither an ‘I’ to begin with, nor such an I’s supposed decision-making capability based on thoughts that, in actuality, arise and pass on their own accord and aren’t the products of that hypothetical I’s mental faculties. In other words: what appears to be a ‘decision’ is simply a collection of causes, circumstances and sensory experiences directing the flow of ‘things unfolding’ in a specific way.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

‘Intention’ feels more slippery and harder to describe than ‘decision’... as if it were a subtle ‘charge’ that colours how one relates to phenomena. It also appears to somehow be informed by those phenomena themselves – I’m struggling to word this!

‘Intention’ seems to be a subtler variation on the theme of ‘decision’. Even though intention feels somewhat more ‘personal’ than decision, it is ultimately very similar in that it is not about how an ‘I’ relates to phenomena, but about the interrelations between phenomena. These interrelations would, again, simply be informed by causes, conditions, circumstances, and give rise to a specific ‘energetic’ configuration that commonly gets labelled ‘intention’ and informs the way in which things unfold.

The example that came to mind writing the above was about a blackbird I have daily interactions with. What feels like ‘my intentions’ towards him could conventionally be characterised by labels such as friendship, care, benevolence, respect, empathy, affection. Usually, after I have laid out food out for him, I step aside and squat at some distance, because I want him to feel at ease about approaching and taking the food. That at least is the mind’s version of what goes down! In actuality, there is a complex phenomenon labelled ‘blackbird’ and a complex phenomenon labelled ‘Jana’ that come into contact (or ‘arise together’); the two phenomena seem to be similar in some regards and dissimilar in others, and this pattern of similarities and dissimilarities plus the circumstances of the two complex phenomena coming into contact and relating to each other gives rise to the energetic charge or ‘tint’ of what could be labelled ‘intention’ in either of them.

A metaphor that suggests itself is that of two strings being plucked at the same time, each with their own respective frequency spectrum, combining to form a chord whose ‘character’ (degree of consonance/dissonance) is determined by the properties of the individual strings’ frequencies. How harmonious (or not) the resultant chord will sound is inherent in their relationship. In a similar manner, what feels like ‘my intention’ towards the blackbird, might simply be inherent in our respective properties and in our ocurring together.

I have no idea if that makes any sense whatsoever to anyone reading this, haha! Apologies.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

There is no such thing as ‘free will’. Free will is as fictitious as ‘decision-making’. Causes, conditions, and circumstances giving rise to ocurrences unfolding. That’s all.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

...the same is true for ‘choice’.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

...and for ‘control’.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

I have no idea how the greater (let alone some abstract ‘absolute’) scheme of ‘things’ works, but ‘things’ seem to be happening entirely on their own accord, for reasons and in ways that remain a mystery (for the time being, at least). Sensations and phenomena arise and pass, seemingly unceasingly. That is all I know.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Convention and ethics would suggest that we are responsible for a myriad aspects of what we call ‘our life’, from the way we breathe to our choice of diet to our treatment of other beings and so on. And even though I have to admit it feels somewhat jarring and mildly scandalous to make such a statement, I would have to answer this question with ‘nothing’.

Responsibility presupposes free will, choice, control, decision-making, intention – and none of these prerequisites exist in actuality. So there, I’ve said it: I’m actually not responsible for anything. :D

Anything to add?

Life is a wild ride, and reality is unfathomable.
That’s all I have.


Much love,
Jana

[Anastacia42]

Hi Jana,

Beautiful answers. Just that one about "intention."

Take a look again at "intention." You say it's slippery. It really isn't. It's the same as the others. It has no existence at all. Can you please take a look and see what you find? Is there "intention" or just a thought story to make it seem like "intention" exists? Who is there to have this "intention," anyway?

One clue is that truth is very simple. The long, drawn out, difficulty in responding about "intention" is a clue that what is written is unlikely to be the truth about it.

I will share your replies with other guides who may have questions after you reply again about "intention."

Loving,
Stacy

[Anisha]

...yeah, the ‘intention’ answer turned out to be pretty convoluted, I agree. :D
And I also agree that overcomplexity usually is a red flag. Ok, so...

Can you please take a look and see what you find? Is there "intention" or just a thought story to make it seem like "intention" exists? Who is there to have this "intention," anyway?

The fact that there is no subject that could ‘have intentention’ is the salient point and a dead giveaway, clearly – with no one to have an intention, it obviously cannot be anything other than a thought construct. I'm not sure why this one still feels so sticky - maybe the seeing needs some more time to percolate...

[Anastacia42]

Okay. Would you like to "percolate" before I share your answers?

Remember, this will all unfold over time and at this time, we have 3 different vide chat support groups to help, now or later.

Did I share these?

This can also come & go as we adjust to what is true. Watch this, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

Loving,
Stacy

[Anisha]

Thanks for the video links, Stacy - that sure resonates and has also been my experience with previous insights. It just takes some time for them to integrate and dismantle old belief structures and habitual patterns.

Would you like to "percolate" before I share your answers?

No, it's fine, please go on and share them.

Remember, this will all unfold over time and at this time, we have 3 different vide chat support groups to help, now or later.

So much great support & so much to be grateful for!! Thank you. <3