Hoping to experience world as it is

[Lila61]

Look - does the subtle commenting in the background influence in any way "what's happening"?

. I couldn't seem to remember the questions during the day, and this question seemed to disappear as soon as I asked it,and even disappears before I finish writing this sentence! It seems like there must be some strong resistance, or maybe that it is so accepted that there is someone commenting (me) and it can change what is happening in it's own reality. this morning I was lying on the sofa, and asking the question if there wasn't all this commenting going on, would I be doing something different than just lying here lost in thoughts.. Wow, now a wave of strong tiredness, it seems something is not open to look at this question. I guess I don't know becuase I can't check if things would have happened differently if the commenting wasn't happening. it already happened that way, with the tihnking.

hich feels more true - "what's happening" or the comments about what's happening?

a thought that is believed to be me just answers, "the thought seem more true" (even though there's a guess that that's not the right answer! But I guess it's more that the thoughts seem significant where pure perception of what is happening doesn't have an effect on "Me" Only "my" thoughts about perceptions, I like or I don't like, that's ugly or that's beautiful seems more significant than whatever it is commenting on. The actual what is happening feels unimportant.I'm not sure that either what is happening OR the commenting feel real!

Is there a me, self. Lila doing the subtle commenting in the background?

Well, most of the time it feels like the commenting is the foreground, the same one who these thoughts are coming to and being typed out. So is there a me right "here"? A thought can say yes, or "it feels like there is a me", but I don't know if that's true that it feels like there is a "me". Thought is just saying that.. I have no idea if it's true that it even feels that there is a me.

s there a me, self. Lila doing the subtle commenting in the background?
Hiding somewhere?
Where?

I guess there is an idea that there is a me that I can't see because i am it, but that I am there.. The way Mooji says eyes can't see themselves.. they can only see other. I guess there is the same idea that there could be some sort of a me, maybe invisible that i am that can't see itself.. or it could be the body because I can't see it being inside of it.. But none of that makes sense, but it's too complicated to really grasp clearly how it doesn't make sense (maybe this mind is not so fast) Now it seems like the only evidence of "me" is thoughts , but they don't seem to be coming from something.. So the only ME is thoughts, but those are like fireworks in a way, just appearing and disappearng, but not even really.. just imagined to appear and disappear.. Now it seems like the illusion of me is that assumption that thoughts are coming from someone but there's no sign of someone. Just the thoughts.
Sorry this is long!

Thank you, I always want to say goodnight, but it is probaly morning for you, so goodmorning!

Love,
Lila



.

[Lila61]

just wanted to add one comment to the long reply I put last night.. When I wokke up this morning to usual commenting already happening, and asked is it changing what is happening, the answer seemed to be that it's not changing what is happening becuase it IS what is happening. It couldn't be any different. It doesn't change lying in bed, being light outside, being awake, it doesn't help fall back to sleep, but it is also what is happening.

[Luchana]

Hi dear Lila,

Wow, now a wave of strong tiredness, it seems something is not open to look at this question.

Yes, it can happen, it's common and nothing to worry about. The very noticing of resistance losing its strength.
Can you look:
What is this resistance about?
What may happen if you NOT resist?

So is there a me right "here"? A thought can say yes, or "it feels like there is a me", but I don't know if that's true that it feels like there is a "me". Thought is just saying that.. I have no idea if it's true that it even feels that there is a me

Ok let's clean up here
There is experience called character Lila, thoughts are coming and usualy judge the characther or are trying to protect the charachter.
So, there is a charcter and thoughts but is there a me who is the character Lila ?
Who cares what thoughts will explain to the character if there is no you?
The same like the thoughts are judging the weather.
Is there something more than experience of character Lila and experience of thoughts (judging the character Lila)?


Is there a self, responsabile for all this?

Much love,
Luchana

[Lila61]

What is this resistance about?
What may happen if you NOT resist?

The answer that keeps coming every time I ask what is the resistance to look about, is something like "because there's nothing to find", "it's pointless, there's nothing". I don't know if that is feared, to find out that there is nothing to find, if nothing to resist seems like no point to seeking/existing, or if that's just a story? Maybe resistance is about not wanting to find out that there is nothing to find. The answer "nothing" keeps being rejected..I don't know what would happen if I find out there is nothing ..
This question reminds me of when Nikki said that there is no safety AT ALL in this, but I kind of wanted to say that somehow that IS the safety.. Somehow this question feels similar, that nothing to find could be the same sort of paradoxical relief that isn't logical?

here is experience called character Lila, thoughts are coming and usualy judge the characther or are trying to protect the charachter.
So, there is a charcter and thoughts but is there a me who is the character Lila ?

. This question was confusing at first, not knowing what is the character "lila", there's no such entity.. but there are habitual patterns of behavior I guess, habitual thoughts, stories that can change, a general body description that also changes but has some things that remain familiar.. But I guess that that construct feels less real than just the idea of "me", which doesn't bring all those things up, and doesn't need any of the stories to still think it exists. There does seem to be something that the stories are about, that the character characteristics apply to, but they could all change and it seems like there would still be me. It seems like the Me could be anyone, it seems like a center of experience, but it could be any experience. I could also say it's just THIS, but it feels like a cnter, but with eyes closed see there is no boundary to this even though it feels like there is a center assumed to be in the body. It is not the character Lila, though. there is no character Lila in this feeling of a center. So I feel confused about the idea of explaing to a character if there is no me.
Today on a walk it seemed clear that each thought is just speaking to the next thought, but it all feels like ME. There isn't an image of who it is speaking to. it's just speaking and answering to itself, that maybe creates the illusion of a ME. I don't think I have a strong sense of appearance about "myself" but I do about "others".
Not sure!

Ok, see you in a few hours!

Lila

[Luchana]

Hi Lila,

thank you for your reply. We've clean some stuff on our meeting, but let's see.

Today on a walk it seemed clear that each thought is just speaking to the next thought, but it all feels like ME. There isn't an image of who it is speaking to. it's just speaking and answering to itself, that maybe creates the illusion of a ME. I don't think I have a strong sense of appearance about "myself" but I do about "others".

All right.
Spend a whole day gently and curiosly observing this chatter. The jujments, the labels, the opinions, the interpretations and so on. Just notice thoughts doing what they are doing and build a story of an I, a self.
A feeling becomes my (personal) feeling, a chocolate cake becomes - I like chocolate cake, a comedy moovie becomes - I love comedy. a noise becomes - I don't like this noise and so on.
Just notice with everything. It could be food, animal, car or it could be emotion, relationship, job...

Let me know what you find.

Just plain looking - try to not engage with thoughts and share only what is seen at direct experience only, not what thougths are saying about it.

Have fun:-)

Much love,
Luchana

[Lila61]

Spend a whole day gently and curiosly observing this chatter. The jujments, the labels, the opinions, the interpretations and so on. Just notice thoughts doing what they are doing and build a story of an I, a self.
A feeling becomes my (personal) feeling, a chocolate cake becomes - I like chocolate cake, a comedy moovie becomes - I love comedy. a noise becomes - I don't like this noise and so on.
Just notice with everything. It could be food, animal, car or it could be emotion, relationship, job...

Let me know what you find.

Just plain looking - try to not engage with thoughts and share only what is seen at direct experience only, not what thougths are saying about it.

There is a judgement that "i didn't catch many " of the story going from impersonal to personal, but I think I caught a few times, especially around noticing sensations like a neutural noticing small area burning sensation in my leg, then a few seconds later like a program kicks in to ask "oh could that be something serious? i don't know if you ever had that before!" like something waiting for memories to surface that match that current sensations. Then the noticing "i didn't used to do whtat when there was a differnet sensation" (another judgment and part of a story)
When a tall man got into the elevator with me, and didn't say hello or smile, there were explanations being offered for why I feel uncomfortable. When other people were friendly or smiled for no apparent reason, there was a feeling of lightness and happiness that they smiled "at me" or "my dogs" . or when the girl who works at the front desk comes out to be friendly, thoughts that "she's so nice" (to me). "maybe she doesn't really like me" When another doorman is friendly there are thougths that he doesn't really want to talk, and "i don't know what to say to him, he must not like me"
I'm not sure if I know what you mean by direct expereince, those thoughts aren't really direct expereince.. I thought maybe t the sensatins when the man got in the elevator, I don't really know what they were. When people smile there's smile and a light "happy' feeling. When the girl who works at the front desk is friendly, there's also a warm feeling.. when words don't flow talking to the other doormen, there is a feeling of discomfort.
I also had an unpleasant facebook messenger exchange with Walter Driscoll, who I told you had seemed to want to form a lcoal nonduality group and I had met twice, but not felt that I wanted to meet again.. I thought i had been polite about not wanting to meet last week, and left door open for future meetings, but his response of "I wish you well, " with a namaste seemed like he took that "we are finished here".. I thought maybe i had misinterpreted that, but today I messaged him a question about an interview he told me he was going to be doing this month, and his response was what I considered very rude and unpleasant.. he said something like "I don't have anything to offer you, " (which I hadn't felt I had asked for anything, and I had never asked him for anything..) "I don't need anything from anybody". and then "I wish you well" again. With a Namaste sign, but the thought was that his "I wish you well" this time was clearly meant as "don't message me again" .
The sensation after reading his reply was I suppose whatever the sensation of rejection, like a tightness in the belly, kind of a sense of feeling stunned.. At first it was just a raw sensation, then the thought "oh my God, what a jerk. I was right about him! Wow. No wonder his wife is kicking him out of the house! " Seemed to alternate between anger and embarrassment, and wanting some assurance that I would never have to interact with him again.. Thoughts of blocking him on Facebook, so i didn't see his replies to other people, but not wanting him to know I cared, but then doing it anyway because if I don't interact with him what does it matter. Some sense of relief at blocking him.. Definitely a strong sense of a ME and a HIM, and a ME that I am defending from a HIM. But what is really here is just a sensation that is now being called anger, embarrassment, but also seems like "ME" and resistance. I suppose it IS a sense of resistance, it's the feeling of not liking.
I don't know if it would take a ME to avoid someone who there has been angry or unpleasant interactions with, in this case there is a story of "I don't like him".. But maybe if there hadn't been questioning why don't I, am I wrong, or is he, there would jus tbe a natural avoiding?
Ok I am not sure that I did what you asked, because it seemed necessary to tell the personal thoughts that were happening in order to know the difference.. But maybe it's not necessary?

Thank you Luchana! Love, Love, Love
Lila

[Luchana]

Hi Lila,

thank you for sharing this with me.
You've done your best, the system knows perfectly how to react. As if we do not need thoughts to tell us what to do. All kind of emotions are welcome to appear and they appear when curtain triggers are happening.
But does this mean that there is a me, a self to whom they are happening too?

Look for the one who is offendet, who is angry?
Where is this one?
Is there someone hiding? Or there is just anger and the feeling of "it's just not right" ?
Is there a button or a file from where these emotions are cooming?

It is easier to look at those when the waters are calm, but at the moment if those emotions are strong - just message me and we can see each other for a while? No need to wait until our next meeting

Sending much love,
Luchana

[Lila61]

Look for the one who is offendet, who is angry?
Where is this one?
Is there someone hiding? Or there is just anger and the feeling of "it's just not right" ?
Is there a button or a file from where these emotions are cooming?

Hi Luchana,

thank you so much for the offer to see each other for a bit today, if emotions are too high.. They are only a little bit stirred up, there's just a little bit more of sense of wariness and suspicion about people in general, some thoughts or a feeling arising very occasionally that maybe "people don't really like me, are just pretending to be nice, and have other motives". But then the thought also seems to counter that, " NO, there is no center "person" who likes or doesn't like "Me", and no "me " to like or dislike anyway". It might seem just like a thought to make a "me" feel better, but it actually just feels like the truth. There are smiles happening, there can be ignoring or not noticing "others", happy feelings or angry, like a dog that wags its tail and wants to meet my dogs, or dogs that growl and bark..
There also comes up a feeling of empathy or understanding for Walter's reaction, that he is apparently in a lot of emotional pain right now because his wife has asked him to leave and he is only trying to find a place to live.. There is a sense of kind of a desperate ME, whether that is his experience or not, I don't know. But his response seems like a dog biting when injured, saying that he doesn't need anything from anyone.. (there was a thought to say, "except a place to live......") But there seems to be at times a sense of neutral sympathy that there is suffering. Yet nobody that really "cares", or that it matters to. And it is natural to stay away from a dog with rabies, even though you feel sorry for it. But in reading this over, there's a feeling that there's a ME who SHOULD not feel angry, and who SHOULD not blame, who SHOULD not find fault, when I don't think that's how it was meant... There are also occasional thoughts that "Wow, Walter is Garbage!" , and those are kind of nice and true as well (Not making toooo much bigger stories about that, other than "I bet that's why his wife left him" I guess neither reaction is coming from someone, there may be an idea that each comes from a different file

Now to answer the questions, I put the quote too high in the email!
There is no one who is offended and angry, there is just a feeling that is only called angry or offended by .... um.. by nothing. The description angry and offended appears attaching to a feeling that is also called "me" There is nothing there. If there is a file that everything is coming from, that file can't be found with these senses! But a thought now that maybe a file can't be found because what is looking is IN the file and can't see outside itself. But that would make it an infinite file folder, maybe.
and "the feeling it's just not right", that's pretty much the feeling that is being labelled "Me" most of the time.


THank you, Luchana!

[Luchana]

Hi Lila,

Oh, I'm glad that things seem better with emotions :-) Just to know that you can always message me.

There is no one who is offended and angry, there is just a feeling that is only called angry or offended by .... um.. by nothing. The description angry and offended appears attaching to a feeling that is also called "me" There is nothing there. If there is a file that everything is coming from, that file can't be found with these senses! But a thought now that maybe a file can't be found because what is looking is IN the file and can't see outside itself. But that would make it an infinite file folder, maybe.
and "the feeling it's just not right", that's pretty much the feeling that is being labelled "Me" most of the time.

Nice :-) Yes, no file, no one IN :-)

Can you look these question one by one and reply each of them individually.

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

Take your time, watch like a cat is hunting a mouse and have fun :-)

Much love,
Luchana

ps. Today 16th of April 6 pm UK time
and tomorrow 17th 10 am UK time there are Unleashed Monthly Meetings.

You are most welcome to join

Topic: Unleashed Monthly Meeting

Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/3718929853?pw ... BoUUNwUT09

Meeting ID: 371 892 9853
Passcode: HmbSF4

[Lila61]

Does the sense of self have a location?

A quick answer seems to come as if it's obvious, "Here", but then it is not so obvious what "here" refers to! It could be said that it's the location of the body in space, but that now seems like a concept that doesn't have a real meaning.. If I ask, where is the self, and the answer is "here", and push to ask "where exactly?' the immediate answer is "nowhere". Now an afterthought maybe, "or everywhere"

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

There's also an immediate feeling that yes, it has kind of a round cloudlike shape smaller than the body, but that is just what a thought is saying. No, there's no shape or size.

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

wow i'm not sure I've heard that question before. The sensse of self can't communiate or say anything.. it's just a sensation. (last night when out at dinner with my son, he proposed that maybe the sense of self is just the senation that happens when there is thinking, and that's all.. it does seem to only happen when there are thoughts labeling it.. not sure

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

Before really looking there was already a thought that there might be a contraction or sensation, but when looking directly, there's not even that. But when looked at directly, there doesn't seem to be any sense of self.

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

When watching like a cat hunting a mouse, none of those things seem to be appearing.. it seems like it can only seem to appear when it's not being looked for carefully. Maybe as a word thought, like "here" or "THIS", or 'me', or "my" or "I am", but when looked at those aren't really there either.

Thank you so much for the offer to message any time, it's very much appreciated! I wish I could put a heart with my computer, but can't do it, so just say Love, love love you!

Lila

[Luchana]

Hi Lila,

the immediate answer is "nowhere". Now an afterthought maybe, "or everywhere"

The immediate is obvious, in a way when it is looked for - it is not found. It is that simple.

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

it does seem to only happen when there are thoughts labeling it.. not sure

yeees.
Can you look again? Just be sure :-)
Is the sence of a self say or communicate anything or it is just a content of a thought?

But when looked at directly, there doesn't seem to be any sense of self.

Totaly! When looking at directly :-) It is not there.

Thank you so much for the offer to message any time, it's very much appreciated! I wish I could put a heart with my computer, but can't do it, so just say Love, love love you!

:-) Love back to you.

Look at the questions today just to be clear and write what comes.

Much love,
Luchana

[Lila61]

Hi Luchana,

I asked the question you gave, does the sense of self communicate or say anything a few times during the day, and every time the answer was that it doesn't say or communicate anything.. The talking, the voice in the head is not coming from the sense of self, the sense of self is just there at the same time as the thought stream. But it's not doing the thoughts. At times I have had the question who is listening to the thoughts? and there's been the idea that this sense of self is listening, but it's not listening, it's not doing anything. It's just apparently there.

There is an idea that thougths are speaking to this sense of self, even though it's not listening or doing anything. I don't know if thoughts think they are talking to a sensation that is someone.. That wasn't the question that was focused on, though.. and it seems a bit different.

Ok, thank you!

Love,
Lila

[Luchana]

Hi Lila,

you did a very good looking.

I asked the question you gave, does the sense of self communicate or say anything a few times during the day, and every time the answer was that it doesn't say or communicate anything.. The talking, the voice in the head is not coming from the sense of self, the sense of self is just there at the same time as the thought stream. But it's not doing the thoughts. At times I have had the question who is listening to the thoughts? and there's been the idea that this sense of self is listening, but it's not listening, it's not doing anything. It's just apparently there.

Exactly!

There is an idea that thougths are speaking to this sense of self, even though it's not listening or doing anything. I don't know if thoughts think they are talking to a sensation that is someone.. That wasn't the question that was focused on, though.. and it seems a bit different.

Another question for you to look

Does a thought know to whom or to what it is speaking too?


and

Can a thought think?



Much love
Luchana

[Lila61]

Does a thought know to whom or to what it is speaking too?


and

Can a thought think?

Hi Luchana,

When I asked these questions during the day, the answer was still I just don't know. I don't know what is thinking, I don't know if a thought can think... But now I see the question was supposed to be Can a thought think, when I was asking " can a thought think itself" out of habit, because Mooji often said "a thought cannot think it self" and I just took his word for that, even though I didn't really know. Somehow the question " can a thought think" seems to make it clearer that a thought is just a thought, it's not doing anything. But there's an idea that there is something thinking, which goes back to the idea of "me".
Which I wanted to mention from watching an interview you did with Matt, you said there is something looking from behidn the eyes, which is confusing that there is whatever is happening AND something watching it, and again that is taken to still be some kind of ME, even if it's the same in everyone.. like consciousness that is separate from everything it sees. I guess I can't say that I know whether there is anything else behind the eyes or just everything perceived, because I don't perceive it, I don't know it's there?
Other question, does a thought know to whom or to what it is speaking? There is still an assumption that it thinks it's speaking to the feeling of ME But I don't know if a thought is what is assuming that or there is soemthing else assuming.. confused at the idea of something else behind the eyes that may be doing that..

Ok think I am too sleepy now to look much more tonight!

Oh, I did join meeting from youtube and thought I have to watch again, because not paying enough attention, and the bits I caught seemed very good.. THank you!

Lila

[Luchana]

Hi Lila.

Somehow the question " can a thought think" seems to make it clearer that a thought is just a thought, it's not doing anything. But there's an idea that there is something thinking, which goes back to the idea of "me".

The question is - how is this idea experienced?
Isn't it just a thougth?

you said there is something looking from behidn the eyes, which is confusing that there is whatever is happening AND something watching it, and again that is taken to still be some kind of ME, even if it's the same in everyone.. like consciousness that is separate from everything it sees.

Oh I see..there is a confusion going on here. There is "no thing" as a solid substantional thing looking behind the eyes - but there is looking going on. What's looking? I can't say, I can't know. Life, love, this...nothing and everything. No matter what words are used - it is indescribable.

And do you see the difference between "I does not exist" and "I do not exist?"

We are looking to find is there a separate entity, separate from whatever is happening. but there is no denial of life, this - whatever we can call it.

There is a human existing and to say that there is nothing going on is it sort of rejecting.
Can you see this?


Let me know what comes up.

Much love,
Luchana