The Gate

Hi Warissem,

Yes. Seeking is still here because you expect a special experience. Now, is "seeker" seen as a thought ? Have you seen that there is no SEER, no knower : there is being aware, impersonal knowingness ? This impersonal knowing is always here from the beginning before you came in the forum. It is familiar, ordinary, intimate but it is impersonal. That is it. Now, this knowingness or awareness is complete and hole. Stand as this knowing and see thoughts for what they are : thoughts only.

Yes. I’m noticing the thoughts and how quickly it creates a false sense of reality, then there's just whats appearing including the thoughts and there’s a relaxation with that.

What is going in circles is a thought : do you see that ? Come back to direct experience now, now, now and now. Do you see clearly that all what is not in direct experience is about thoughts ?

Yes, that is just a thought. The whole sense of “me” ness are made up of thoughts.

Can you not be aware ? Can you stop the functioning of the senses : hearing, seeing, etc …

No, it just happens on its own and immediately.

Many thanks again,
Joan

Hi Joan

Great, it seems that all is clear. Are you ready to answer to the final questions ? Anyway, feel free to discuss any itching doubt ?

Warissem

Hi Warissem,

Great, it seems that all is clear. Are you ready to answer to the final questions ? Anyway, feel free to discuss any itching doubt ?

I’m ready for the final questions.

Thank you,
Joan

Hi Joan

Here are the final questions. Take your time to give answers. You can answer a half of them one day and the other half another day.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Give in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?


Best wishes

Warissem

Hi Warissem,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

There is no separate me found. The "self" is a collection of thoughts and mental movies. It never existed.

2) Give in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

When thoughts/imaginings appear, that becomes the temporary reality. And when it is noticed that they are just thoughts, there's a relaxation and a surrender to what is.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels neutral. I think I was getting frustrated a few conversations ago because I was expecting to see something else, something I must’ve heard from a few non duality speakers. But every now and then, there's a recognition that everything is accepted including unpleasant thoughts.

Thank you,
Joan

Hi Joan

There is a need to elaborate on each question :


What was the functioning before seeing through the illusion of a separate self and after seeing it ?

What has changed ?

Thank you

Warissem

Hi Warissem,

Sorry for the delay, I just need a bit more time.

Many thanks again,
Joan

Hi Joan

Take it easy, have a good time

Warissem

Hi Warissem,

What was the functioning before seeing through the illusion of a separate self and after seeing it ?

I’m not really sure- with our dialogue I feel like something was understood, but I don’t know what change is supposed to happen or functioning before and after. Nothing feels or looks different.

There’s a thought here that says “just relax”, don’t try so hard, since there’s no separation anyway, whatever I do or feel is not separate already. I sometimes see there’s all there is but there are still thoughts that I get “lost” in..

Many thanks,
Joan

Hi Joan

I’m not really sure- with our dialogue I feel like something was understood, but I don’t know what change is supposed to happen or functioning before and after. Nothing feels or looks different.

There is no change, it is OK.

There’s a thought here that says “just relax”, don’t try so hard, since there’s no separation anyway, whatever I do or feel is not separate already. I sometimes see there’s all there is but there are still thoughts that I get “lost” in..

Yes, "all there is" IS "what is" and thinking about it don't change it. Thoughts will continue to arise and just see them as thoughts. Don't take the train of thoughts. Anyway what is this "I" which get lost in thoughts ?

Best wishes

Warissem

Hi Warissem,

Yes, "all there is" IS "what is" and thinking about it don't change it. Thoughts will continue to arise and just see them as thoughts. Don't take the train of thoughts. Anyway what is this "I" which get lost in thoughts ?

The “I” getting lost in thoughts is a thought, and a thought comes up about that, that says, getting lost in thoughts is not ok (but it is, its just a thought that has to get "this" right).
I’m slowly answering the rest of the questions, will come shortly, they require patience and care. Thank you as always for your time!

Joan

Hi Joan

Take all your time to look before giving answers to the questions.

Thank you

Warissem

Hi Warissem,

Hope you're doing well. I know its been a while, so here are my responses, finally!

What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

The last push was, not really sure, if there was a push per se, but there’s an ever nagging feeling of discontent and boredom, all thoughts of course, but believed so hard, until its looked at and seen for what it is. But I’ve been curious if what I take to be reality is really reality. When I look, its mostly made up of imagination, once in a while its right here in whats happening and there’s an okayness with whatever is arising.

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?

To “me” it really seems that these are real, that we are deciding, have intention, free will, choice and control. Since there’s nobody there, who would be doing these things ? Life happens, circumstances appear as though we chose them, when they just appear, like impulses just appear that seem to lead to circumstances, that lead us to believe we made that choice. As I read that, its kind of a revelation.

Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

When I look, for example, even the most mundane tasks is an impulse happening. For example, there’s an impulse to make bread, so then the body gathers ingredients to make bread, it looks as though i made this happen when baking happens with no doer, desire for the bread arises and the body obliges.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

Since there is no one doing anything, then theres no responsibility which sounds absurd to the “self" (practical things like bills need to be taken care of, but the body that needs to survive does that on its own) but since there are just appearances, even responsibility is that, it is entirely made up. For example, as a biological creature, we seem to have predispositions and certain traits. I’m by nature an introverted person but can sometimes stretch “myself” to appear extroverted and at times enjoy it, but I’m not responsible for that character trait, so naturally anything that arises with that character with its traits-likes and dislikes, and predisposition is not it’s choosing, its almost like a program that runs on its own.

Anything to add?

This dialogue has been both fascinating and challenging at times. ITs fascinating to see that most of what “reality” is, is unquestioned thoughts, sometimes its so pervasive and fast, it’s missed entirely and it overlays the real reality. So, this is already whole and complete, everything- the joy, the despair, the seeking, everything is included, sometimes that is really challenging because there are pervasive thoughts or maybe what we call conditioning that is reinforced so many times, its automatic. And those are just thoughts too, because without those thoughts, there’s a lighter weight with this.

Thanks as always for your time!
Joan

Hi Joan

I read your answers. Answer to this question with a great honesty :

Have you seen that there is no you, no separate self in any shape or form ?

If it is YES : what was seen ? Where what is seen ?

If it is NO : there will be a suite to this dialog.

Warissem

Hi Warissem,

I read your answers. Answer to this question with a great honesty :
Have you seen that there is no you, no separate self in any shape or form ?

With our dialogues and direct looking, I really can’t find a separate self, only thoughts and sensations. However that manifests, I’m not sure. As far as feeling like wholeness, I really don’t know what that is supposed to feel like- if that means the end of seeking, then that isn’t the case here- seeking is still there. But the thoughts create an artificial sense of self, it comes and goes and that undermines the direct looking sometimes, and there’s a frustration here and a thought that says whatever this is isn’t enough, and there’s a thought that it wants to not be here anymore, it wants to disappear/escape (not to worry, I’m not currently depressed, suicidal or mentally unstable), but it’s a recurrent thought that goes on, I just let it do it’s thing, because I know it comes from a sense of frustration.

If it is NO : there will be a suite to this dialog.

I don’t know if it’s a yes, I don’t feel like I’m in wholeness, so I don’t know, so maybe it’s a no. I feel that most of it, is intellectual understanding only, so I really don’t know. When I look, I can’t find that unicorn of a separate self, it doesn’t exist and then there all there is but I can’t emphatically say yes, when this question is asked.

Many thanks again,
Joan