Getting liberated in Brazil

[seeadler]

Hi Dênis,

in a way it is important, yes.

But I don't want to explain you anything.

I want you to see the simple truth by yourself. Because if you only listen to me, it will be only an intellectual understanding, and this doesn't help anything.

Look: who/what is there in AE that is asking? I mean, something is asking.

After all the exercises and questions we went through:
Is there a separate entity "Dênis" found in actual experience?
No thinking, just look NOW and please answer with yes or no only.




If there is not - how can there be a responsibility?


Was there ever an "I"?


Please, just simple looking. No thought stories.
We will still have a look at your "issue" :-)

Kalle

[deniselias]

Hi, Kalle!

Look: who/what is there in AE that is asking? I mean, something is asking.

Some thoughts are asking.

After all the exercises and questions we went through:
Is there a separate entity "Dênis" found in actual experience?
No thinking, just look NOW and please answer with yes or no only.

No.

Regards,

Dênis

[seeadler]

hi Dênis,

Look: who/what is there in AE that is asking? I mean, something is asking.

Some thoughts are asking.

After all the exercises and questions we went through:
Is there a separate entity "Dênis" found in actual experience?
No thinking, just look NOW and please answer with yes or no only.

No.

Great. So, as we discovered already earlier, there is no free will, no free choice, because this "independent, responsible subject Me" is an illusion.
Can you see?

But life is happening, like it's happening, and always has - there never was any separate "me".
Look at a plant, an animal; look at a beautiful woman - is life random, chaotic?

So life just is, how it is. All is included, all just IS. But the valuations, judgements, responsibility, merit and guilt, are obviously just human's thoughts about what IS, and it looks like they are very short-lived and fugitive ;-)

You might redo the "fruit experiment" of Nov25: If thoughts are able to understand reality.


Hope it's getting clearer :-)


kalle

[deniselias]

Hey, Kalle,

Great. So, as we discovered already earlier, there is no free will, no free choice, because this "independent, responsible subject Me" is an illusion.
Can you see?

But life is happening, like it's happening, and always has - there never was any separate "me".

Ok.

Look at a plant, an animal; look at a beautiful woman - is life random, chaotic?

It seems that life is based on patterns that seem chaotic.

So life just is, how it is. All is included, all just IS. But the valuations, judgements, responsibility, merit and guilt, are obviously just human's thoughts about what IS, and it looks like they are very short-lived and fugitive ;-)

How do we live in the world with this understanding? If there is no will, what am I supposed to do?
I fear the practical implications of this... no meaning leads, in most cases, to depression and/or suicide. How can the understanding that there is no meaning, no choice, no will, no purpose affect me (or people in general)?

Dênis

[seeadler]

How do we live in the world with this understanding? If there is no will, what am I supposed to do?
I fear the practical implications of this... no meaning leads, in most cases, to depression and/or suicide. How can the understanding that there is no meaning, no choice, no will, no purpose affect me (or people in general)?

please, let's not speculate, like "what if.."

Look what is here, now. The computer, the reading, a smell, breathing, thinking, comparing ways to describe something, typing, heartbeat, - all happening by itself, can you see? No I necessary.

Billions of bodily processes keep you alive every second.
Being in this moment - is there anything missing?




If there is fear now, tell me what it consists of in actual experience!


:-)

[deniselias]

Look what is here, now. The computer, the reading, a smell, breathing, thinking, comparing ways to describe something, typing, heartbeat, - all happening by itself, can you see? No I necessary.

Ok, no necessity of the I.

Billions of bodily processes keep you alive every second.
Being in this moment - is there anything missing?

I understand, but I don't feel it... what am I doing wrong?

If there is fear now, tell me what it consists of in actual experience!

No fear.

Dênis

[seeadler]

Being in this moment - is there anything missing?

I understand, but I don't feel it... what am I doing wrong?

what should be felt?



Is there anything "to do" to be in this moment?

Just being aware of it all - expectations, doubts, questions, bodily sensations......




Without there being a subject to it all.



All just happening, like it has always happened.

:-)

[deniselias]

what should be felt?

Is there anything "to do" to be in this moment?

Just being aware of it all - expectations, doubts, questions, bodily sensations......

Without there being a subject to it all.

All just happening, like it has always happened.

Ok.
It's a paradigm shift.
I understand it, but nothing changed. It´s like a new thought, a logical conclusion that makes sense.
But it didn't change anything.

Maybe I should observe life for a while... I don't know.

[seeadler]

Ok.
It's a paradigm shift.
I understand it, but nothing changed. It´s like a new thought, a logical conclusion that makes sense.

Well, imagine you were told to have really beautiful hair for all your life and you never questioned this idea.
But one day you dare to look by yourself, and you find out there is actually no hair.
Is this only logical conclusion, only another thought?

But it didn't change anything.

Don't expect anything suddenly changing. Usually perception shifts gently over weeks.

Maybe I should observe life for a while... I don't know.

Yes. There has been a quite intense exchange. Take one or two days off, maybe go to nature, to swim? check what is directly experienced.


warm wishes
Kalle

[seeadler]

Hi Dênis,

how are you? Any questions coming up?


looking forward to hear from you,
kalle

[deniselias]

Hey Kalle!

I'm fine, thanks! Hope you're fine too!

No questions. In fact, I feel I reached a dead alley.
I understood the logic of the method and I believe it should lead me to perceive something beyond the mind. But somehow I got stuck in the understanding of it all.

What do you think about it?

Dênis

[seeadler]

hey Dênis!

I understood the logic of the method and I believe it should lead me to perceive something beyond the mind.

There is not something else or new to be perceived.
By "perception usually shifts slowly" I only meant that by realizing that the "thinker, the doer", i.e. the separate self is illusory, the perspective on life might change in a subtle way. Sorry if I was unclear.
But, see expectations as a part of automatical thinking - "thinking percieved". Look if there is an "I" involved.

But somehow I got stuck in the understanding of it all.

Don't worry.
tell me please, without referring to thought contents, who got stuck?


In AE, what remains from this statement?



warm wishes,
kalle

[deniselias]

Hello, Kalle!

There is not something else or new to be perceived.
By "perception usually shifts slowly" I only meant that by realizing that the "thinker, the doer", i.e. the separate self is illusory, the perspective on life might change in a subtle way. Sorry if I was unclear.
But, see expectations as a part of automatical thinking - "thinking percieved". Look if there is an "I" involved.

Well, all the human knowledge about spiritual awakening says that this is a perception beyond the mind, and that it is something that is unquestionable. One knows when it happens. Even when it's a glimpse.

Don't worry.
tell me please, without referring to thought contents, who got stuck?

I see that the only possible answer to this question is - "nobody". But that is a conclusion based on specific premises. It seems a kind of circular reasoning - we arrive at the same point because there is no other way if we respect the premises. But I feel that these premises belog to the realm of the mind. And maybe the method should make the mind get confused so that another way of perceiving/being would emerge.
But that's not what is happening...

Warm wishes!

[seeadler]

Hey Dênis,

Well, all the human knowledge about spiritual awakening says that this is a perception beyond the mind, and that it is something that is unquestionable. One knows when it happens. Even when it's a glimpse.

If your aim is to meet a certain expectation, LU is not the right forum.

This inquiry is about seeing that a separate self is not existing.


We have been practising looking in actual experience (which is perception beyond the mind) during the last month.

Perception beyond the mind is always here.
Relax your eyes, notice the ever present awareness, that includes everything:
Sensations, smell, sounds, thoughts, all appearing and disappearing.
It's most simple, most basic.

Anywhere a Dênis to be found, exept as an idea?


Yes or No??




Kalle

[deniselias]

Hey, Kalle!

Anywhere a Dênis to be found, exept as an idea?


Yes or No??

No.



"Dênis"