The Gate

How does it feel to see this?
Is there a sense that this body is 'mine' or 'I?'
If so, how does that manifest?

If I was to ask you where the self is now, how would you respond

Were you able to find and feel "Damian" in a direct way like the other parts of your body?
Where is it?
What did you find? Something? Anything? Nothing?
What sensations did you feel in your body that identified "Damian” (If any)

I found no physical evidence of Damian no colour touch or texture only a sense or thought of him living in my head behind my eyes. However this sense is incredibly strong and even though it contradicts DE I still really believe Damian is in there behind my eyes. There were however no direct sensations that confirmed this Damian- it was all abstract confirmation.

Does the sense of self have a location?
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?
Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?
Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

I appreciate the apology about the keys being lost and insisting they are where I thought I put them.

That should say analogy not apology!!! Damn autocorrect!

Because things feel the same as thy have always done it is difficult for the mind to accept any realisation has happened.

Does the sense of self have a location?
Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?
Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?
If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?
Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?
What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

In doing the exercises I have seen that location of the sense of self comes with the mind. When I realise that ‘I’ is simply a thought then I can see that the sense of ‘I’ being inside me is also a thought. In other words it feels like the sense of self does have a location which is inside me. However I can see that the perception of ‘I’ being inside me is simply a thought- I think it feels like ‘I’ is inside me but I’m just thinking that- I’m giving meaning and life to concepts of location and concluding ‘I’ is inside but that’s just thought .

I would have before said that the sense of self seems to take the shape of a human body. But now I can see that any sense of shape is simply thought. Without the thought about what the sense of self is shaped as I cannot identify any shape for my sense of self.

The only thing the sense of self seemed to communicate was this idea “I am Damian”. But after this enquiry I can see cleary that this so called communication is just a thought. Apart from thought I experience no communication from the sense of self.

The sense of self has no fixed characteristics or attributes. The ones I subscribe to it are all thoughts. There in fact is no evidence of any self outside of thought. The glimpse only lasts a second and I seem to fall back into the belief of a sense of self. But without thoughts I experience no evidence of any self. There is only experience and a pervasive thought about an experiencer.

Yes I understand this, behind the eyes feels like the location of presence. Presence is there, but self? Lets have a look at it from a different angle:

The sense of self has no fixed characteristics or attributes. The ones I subscribe to it are all thoughts. There in fact is no evidence of any self outside of thought. The glimpse only lasts a second and I seem to fall back into the belief of a sense of self. But without thoughts I experience no evidence of any self. There is only experience and a pervasive thought about an experiencer.

Are you saying presence and self are different? How would you describe the difference ?

Yes this is it exactly - so what happens when you fall back into belief? It seems clear now that it is just a thought?

Yes, one is there and can be found. Just like with looking and hearing and sensing and thinking - can you find an owner of awareness or presence? Can you find the split between one who is being aware and what one is being aware of?

I find no split, but again I struggle with meaning for this. The observer and the observed are the same? What does this mean for my relationships with other people. For example, are all of my friends and family not real if I am the same as them. Here is where the confusion is setting in.

I guess the question I am asking is “who am I without my I thought?” And who or what is everyone else?

The thought is so strong

it’s like it won’t let go of me

. It’s almost like I don’t know how to think without it. I don’t have a good foundation without the sense of I I experience confusion when. see it is not there.

it’s like it won’t let go of me

If there is a seemingly solid I thought, does that thought actually refer to anything?

When you meditate, are you familiar with that wider space of awareness in which thought arises and passes? Can a thought be strong? Can one be stronger than another?

Exactly. Yet there is no me to let go of! If a thought has you - and can't let go, how does it have you? What does it have?

It sounds like there is some confusion and frustration - how are you doing? I think you are doing well, the mind is simply making a case for what it thinks is true.

Would some meditation help? If the mind is the size of thought, thought is all powerful and all consuming, but like in those moments in meditation, if mind expands into the boundless space of awareness, thought loses all power, like a tiny gust of wind in infinite space.

I can see that any I thought comes and goes. On closer looking I can see that even the persistent thought that I am experiencing something is still a thought. I can see that the thought “I” is so pervasive that it masquerades as an observer as something different than an “I” belief.

It seems that the thoughts I experience repeat and seem to be one thought. So the thought that I am experiencing a self seems to be one thought but really it is a stream of thought that is pervasive and repetitive.

Right , a thought doesn’t have me, it’s just a thought that something has me which is being clung to and believed (presumably just by another thought)

Yes I am doing ok, thanks for asking. Although I think I am seeing clearly the mind can’t make sense of it and give it meaning and purpose and I feel a bit stuck. But like you said it’s a defence mechanism.

Nice. So if you remember the seeing exercise, where we looked for and couldn't find the seer, now you need to apply that looking to thoughts, both content and thinker of them. It is like a hunt, for this illusion and where it is assumed, until you have looked everywhere to see it doesn't exist.

Can you say a bit more about what you mean about the mind giving it meaning and purpose - do you mean giving the self meaning, or giving the clear seeing meaning? :)

What do you think? If it feels right try the looking and let me know how it goes?

Look again at thoughts arising and passing in the space of awareness, and look for the thinker. Look at whether what they describe or assume can be found, and what about those thoughts makes them seem r

So do you mean that as well as attempting to find the thinker of the thoughts I should also try to find the content of the thought?

I think what I mean is that once it is seen that there is no ‘I’ this creates a type of space. A kind of void that the mind cannot interpret what it means. This open space is I’m guessing clear seeing? It’s just that the mind so used to doing , explaining and interpreting doesn’t know what to do .

I realised that the thoughts that seemed more true were accompanied by strong sensation in my body. If a thought seemed really really true then I would feel tension in my body. This would lead me to believe the thought was true.

The fact sensation was present was what was making these thoughts seem real and true but I can find no other evidence of their existence of truth other than thoughts. There is no evidence of a thinker just a strong thought about one but no colour space shape or anything else .

if I am using DE I can see that the sensation is itself just another thought