Requesting assistance

[Vivien]

Hi Brett,

When investigated, there's no "thing" feeling the mood. The feelings are just happening. But not to some "thing".

Is this an intellectual understanding, or a deep, visceral one?

Look here now. There are colours, sounds, thoughts, sensations, emotion.

What are you in control of right now?
Can you stop colours, sounds, sensations from showing up?
Can you let them to show up?

Is there a self/I in charge of what colours, sounds, sensations are present?
Do they all appear on their own, or a self/I is making them to appear?

Is there a control over ANYTHING?

What do you notice?

Vivien

[BrandonA]

Hi Vivien,

Is this an intellectual understanding, or a deep, visceral one?

When initially answered, it was mostly intellectual. At least, it was pretty clearly not deep or visceral. I'm resisting the urge to intellectually analyze why that is.

However, there does seem to be a deepening, as though the realization is more present more of the time.

I'd like to take another day or so to be with these questions before answering more.

Best,
Brett

[Vivien]

All right, Brett. Just be thorough :)

[BrandonA]

Hello Vivien,

Look here now. There are colours, sounds, thoughts, sensations, emotion.
What are you in control of right now?

Not a single thing that I can see.

Can you stop colours, sounds, sensations from showing up?

No.

Can you let them to show up?

No.

Is there a self/I in charge of what colours, sounds, sensations are present?

Not at all.

Do they all appear on their own, or a self/I is making them to appear?

They appear all on their own.

Is there a control over ANYTHING?

Not one thing that I can find.

What do you notice?

It’s all just happening. There’s nothing doing it.

Brett

[Vivien]

Hi Brett,

It’s all just happening. There’s nothing doing it.

And how does it FEEL to see that everything is just happening without a doer?

Has there been a shift or an ‘aha’ moment?

Vivien

[BrandonA]

Hello Vivien,

B: It’s all just happening. There’s nothing doing it.

V: And how does it FEEL to see that everything is just happening without a doer?

It feels pretty much the same, although I would say the perspective on what's being felt is what is different.

V: Has there been a shift or an ‘aha’ moment?

Yes. It seems like by doing the investigations you've provided, there is finally a shift in perspective on what's happening. There have been shifts already, but, in hindsight, they unshifted pretty quickly.

Brett

[Vivien]

Hi Brett,

V: V: And how does it FEEL to see that everything is just happening without a doer?

B: It feels pretty much the same, although I would say the perspective on what's being felt is what is different.

Could you please tell a bit more about this? What do you mean by ‘the perspective on what’s being felt is what is different’?

Yes. It seems like by doing the investigations you've provided, there is finally a shift in perspective on what's happening.

Could you please tell more about this shift in perspective?

Also, please tell how does the ‘self’ is felt right here, in this moment?

Vivien

[BrandonA]

Hello Vivien,

Could you please tell a bit more about this? What do you mean by ‘the perspective on what’s being felt is what is different’?

Let me try. There is less of a presumption operating that what is being felt is happening to a me, or by a me. There’s a sense of distance from what’s happening, not in the sense that it’s far away, rather seeing without being lost in what’s happening. “Oh, that’s happening, interesting”, rather than “oh, that’s happening and it’s not good and I need to do something about it or figure something out.”

This may be unrelated - there’s a bit more relaxation in general. Less distraction when I’m with my wife or kids. Less tension in orchestrating things to go a certain way. Less efforting intensity around some question or another, more a sense of curiosity and sensing what’s happening.

B: Yes. It seems like by doing the investigations you've provided, there is finally a shift in perspective on what's happening.
V: Could you please tell more about this shift in perspective?

This should be addressed by the above answer.

Also, please tell how does the ‘self’ is felt right here, in this moment?

I would not say there is a ‘self’ felt right here in this moment.

Brett

[Vivien]

Hi Brett,

“Oh, that’s happening, interesting”, rather than “oh, that’s happening and it’s not good and I need to do something about it or figure something out.”
This may be unrelated - there’s a bit more relaxation in general. Less distraction when I’m with my wife or kids. Less tension in orchestrating things to go a certain way. Less efforting intensity around some question or another, more a sense of curiosity and sensing what’s happening.

Nice. I am glad to hear this :)

How do you see the self/me now?

Are you crystal clear without any doubt that it is an illusion?

Tell me what's left of Brett. When checking reality, does he still exist? And if so, can you tell me, what's left of him or how and when he appears? Is there a Brett to cross the gateless gate?

Vivien

[BrandonA]

Hello Vivien,

How do you see the self/me now?

Sometimes it seems practical to play along, as with writing or conversing.
But mostly the understanding is as something that has been made up, assumed. And is now understood as in reality being a bunch of occurrences in experience which aren’t actually a thing, a me, a self.

Are you crystal clear without any doubt that it is an illusion?

Yes.

Tell me what's left of Brett.
When checking reality, does he still exist?

No, definitely not

Can you tell me, what's left of him or how and when he appears?

Does this count?: This morning my wife got irritated at me for something and it seemed like a “me” got uncomfortable and want to defend to make uncomfortable feelings go away. Even this, though, seemed to last a very short period of time until it was all seen as certain feelings arising, no me to be happening to, impersonal.

Is there a Brett to cross the gateless gate?

Nope.

Brett

[Vivien]

Hi Brett,

Can you tell me what are you noticing in every day ordinary happenings?

Is there a difference from before?
What looks different?

Have your expectations been met?

Vivien

[BrandonA]

Hello Vivien,

Can you tell me what are you noticing in every day ordinary happenings?

There is more often a sense of noticing, as opposed to being lost in, what’s happening. However it’s not in the form of disconnection, rather it’s more like it’s all not so personal.

Is there a difference from before?

Yes

What looks different?

There is less (not none) triggering, tension, controlling, caught up on thought patterns without noticing it.

Have your expectations been met?

What expectations? :-)

Does that mean we're finished?

Brett

[Vivien]

Hi Brett,

Does that mean we're finished?

Not yet. You cannot get rid of me that easily :) Just joking. We don’t have to rush to end this abruptly. Let’s chat a bit more, if you don’t mind.

You mentioned that there was a shift.

Could you please tell when exactly you felt the shift from intellectual understanding to experiential?

And how the shift itself was felt?

Vivien

[BrandonA]

Hi Vivien,

We don’t have to rush to end this abruptly. Let’s chat a bit more, if you don’t mind

.
I am glad to hear that, yes, thank you.

Could you please tell when exactly you felt the shift from intellectual understanding to experiential?

It seemed to click “over” upon conducting the inquiry of whether there’s anything doing what is happening now and finding that there is nothing doing, that it is all just happening.

And how the shift itself was felt?

There wasn't a big feeling. It was a perception shift, like a big “Ohhh....That’s how it is”. I am not finding it easy to describe more than that.

Brett

[Vivien]

Hi Brett,

There wasn't a big feeling. It was a perception shift, like a big “Ohhh....That’s how it is”. I am not finding it easy to describe more than that.

So there was no emotional reaction to the shift? No surprise or ‘OMG!’?

Your replies sound clear, but something is missing. As if it didn’t sink in. As if it were just a change in beliefs and not a deep experiential shift. What would you say to this?

Does it feel that the only difference is a change in beliefs or in understanding? That you saw that that there is no doer and then a thought came “Ohh… that’s how it is” – as if you understood it finally?

Or has it sink in to the visceral level and have become a deep conviction without any doubt whatsoever?

Vivien