I'm curious

[Jadzia]

Congrats for winning the contest!

The mind (content of thought) can feel more or less stressed, more or less identified, but that’s all what is as well.

Just to make extra sure: Can mind/thought feel anything, can it be anything?
You neither find mind or content of thought in DE, so?

Every. Single. Last. Thing. Is it. It makes me LAUGH!!!!

Yes, it is funny and joy at the same time. And it is drop dead hilarious how one could miss it, or?

Want to enjoy a bit?
Here is something you can do to celebrate what you found out.
Go out into nature and spend some time watching the movement of the whole. See how clouds move, trees swing, leaves wiggle, grass moves, insects, birds - all move all the time.

Then move focus to sensations and see how they too are in constant motion, thoughts come and go, sounds, colours, sensations come and go.

Notice that everything is part of one movement.

Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?
Is there an inside and an outside of Life?
Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?
Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?
Is witnessing part of the one movement too?
Is there anything which is not just happening?

Enjoy simple being and tell me what you found.

Love,
Jadzia

[notsarah]

YOU: Just to make extra sure: Can mind/thought feel anything, can it be anything? You neither find mind or content of thought in DE, so?

I am stuck here. In the story, mind believes certain things (that it is separate, that it is a person, that it is a real object in some place made up of other objects, etc.). It still frequently gets lost in these beliefs and only remembers that those words don’t actually have any real meaning occasionally when the thought, “Feel into what you really are” or something similar passes through. So thinking is happening… but mind is just a part of the illusion/story of separate things. As an illusion, it can’t feel anything or be anything – but the story says it does and is.

YOU: And it is drop dead hilarious how one could miss it, or?

The best way I can describe my experience at this point is that I now realize that basically all that is happening are sensations. Every description of those sensations is a story. And all the sensations are being described and divided and separated and labeled by the mind (which is also a story). Those labels come to seem real – and the sensations are ascribed to the objects (labels) the mind believes is experiencing them, rather than the other way around: that sensations are all there are. And that which is experiencing the sensations is the same thing as the sensations. And to me it is like a big, black something that is infinite in every direction – and it’s everything in the appearance with no space between it (it is the illusion of space too). It’s all there is – this big, black whatever.

But I keep slipping back into the separate person who now knows this. I’ve co-opted the knowledge as part of the story. I’ve separated myself as something observing the big thing.

YOU: Then close your eyes and see if there is a line between you and out there, between you and life itself. If yes, where is the boundary?

At this very moment I actually feel like I’m back inside my skin. I have a knowledge that that isn’t so – and if I close my eyes and try to find where I end and out there begins it’s harder to stay “inside” – but I am back to battling the idea that I’m separate. It doesn’t feel hilarious; it feels like I’m as separate as I ever was. I’m frustrated again.

YOU: Is there an inside and an outside of Life?

No. Even if I maintain that I’m separate there is life inside of me and outside of me and I can’t differentiate between them.

YOU: Is there something which is not included in the movement of the whole?

No.

YOU: Is there a witness that is watching life happening from a distance?

No.

YOU: Is witnessing part of the one movement too?

Yes.

YOU: Is there anything which is not just happening?

No. But this story of a separate me (thought content) feels at the mercy of what is happening. I feel like, as the story, I’m powerless. Because I’m back to buying into the fact that I exist – that my experience feels real to me – that there is a me who is having an experience. And even though I have an understanding that those are just words to describe the sensations, they still have the ability to hook me into identifying them, and me, as real.

[Jadzia]

All is well!
This yo-yo-ing is bound to happen. It takes a while to settle and it just needs a bit of patience.
Just for the moment - how old are you (lets believe that age exists, at least in the story)? How many years did the conditioning have to really root, take ground, grow?

So thinking is happening… but mind is just a part of the illusion/story of separate things. As an illusion, it can’t feel anything or be anything – but the story says it does and is.

The trick is to again and again discern story from what is found in DE. And this extra effort will be needed for quite a while.

The best way I can describe my experience at this point is that I now realize that basically all that is happening are sensations. Every description of those sensations is a story. And all the sensations are being described and divided and separated and labeled by the mind (which is also a story). Those labels come to seem real – and the sensations are ascribed to the objects (labels) the mind believes is experiencing them, rather than the other way around: that sensations are all there are. And that which is experiencing the sensations is the same thing as the sensations. And to me it is like a big, black something that is infinite in every direction – and it’s everything in the appearance with no space between it (it is the illusion of space too). It’s all there is – this big, black whatever.

This big, black whatever is as good a label as any other.
Just make sure not to rely on memory but to check what is in the pure experience again and again.
With time it will settle.

At this very moment I actually feel like I’m back inside my skin. I have a knowledge that that isn’t so – and if I close my eyes and try to find where I end and out there begins it’s harder to stay “inside” – but I am back to battling the idea that I’m separate. It doesn’t feel hilarious; it feels like I’m as separate as I ever was. I’m frustrated again.

One thing you could do, is to have a straight look at that what is called frustration. You won't feel it the first time in your life. Look at the story in the same way you did analyze a story in a book at school. How is it build up, what is it made of, what seems to come first and is followed by what, and so on. Allow it to be.

Never ever fight frustration or any other emotion coming up. Look at them with child like wonder and study it as a child would do.
All, literally all is part of IT. The falling in and out of a story, too. Nothing wrong with it whatsoever.
Even with falling into the identification again - tah - all is well.
Knowint is always.

Observe. Allow. Enjoy.

....and share whenever you like whatever you like. :-D

Love,
Jadzia

[Jadzia]

How are you doing?

Love,
Jadzia

[notsarah]

Hi Jadzia.

Thanks for checking in. I haven’t reached out to you because I feel like I’m not trying hard enough or focusing enough on this at the moment so there isn’t much to report.

I've been really busy and I've been distracted by work and life. I have remembered periodically to compare the DE vs Story, and this continues to be helpful. I notice my hands a lot - and notice that I'm not the person (who's hands they appear to be) moving them. And I notice the movement of life in general as you've suggested previously by watching nature. And sometimes when I play pool I am aware that I am the table, and the balls, and the opponent and the air...

But largely I am disconnected from the focus and clarity I was feeling before about this. I have a bunch of traveling and a bunch of commitments this month and it's been easier to focus on getting those things done. There appears to be a diligence required that I haven’t applied the past week and a half. In part this is also due to my feeling the frustration.

In answer to your questions about the frustration, it seems to follow some thought or another - something like, "Well, you're not getting this. You’re full of shit – you’re not going to be able to fully understand this.” (My mind grasping at understanding it and conceptualizing/labeling what isn’t going to be able to be conceptualized.) Then I feel helpless and I tend to give up trying. I focus instead on the tasks at hand in this character’s life. Because I have so much going on this is a very easy distraction.

I no longer fully have the illusion that I’m this individual person running my life – if I stop for even a second and consider DE, that is immediately not a possibility anymore. But that is how I’m mostly existing at the moment… going from task to task as this little person who forgets what it is.

One thing I noticed last night when playing pool was that I’m now trying to use this to quell my nerves. My mind has decided that this is my secret weapon – and I’m trying not to lose it. There is also the feeling/thought/belief that if I get this it will make my life easier. (I can clearly see the contradictions even while I’m in the middle of doing it, but of course I can't stop it from happening). All of this is the character trying to control/manipulate things which are totally out of my ability to do so – and this isn’t even mentioning that fact that THE CHARACTER DOESN’T EVEN ACTUALLY EXIST.

Reading this back it appears I’ve gone off a ledge somewhere along the way. I very easily get quite caught up in the story. I’m quite the cliché with the yo-yoing.

I think that I need to create some time for this every day or I too easily slip back into the story.

[Jadzia]

I haven’t reached out to you because I feel like I’m not trying hard enough or focusing enough on this at the moment so there isn’t much to report.

Relax and take it easy. The more you just enjoy what is there, either fully immersed or on top of the story, the easier it is. ;-)

And sometimes when I play pool I am aware that I am the table, and the balls, and the opponent and the air...

Beautiful.
But....
Careful, don't make an expectation out of it.
Expectations can get into the way once the idea of the entity self/I is crumbling.
Will life be easier? Will there be only flow and feeling unity be left?
Nope. The story goes on. Why shouldn't it? It is life experiencing, or?

....going from task to task as this little person who forgets what it is

Where is this little person found?
Can this little person know something or forget something?
Even if there should be forgetting, can something which is be forgotten? Or is it rather overlooked or mistaken for something else?

What does change? Maybe right now there is an opening to deal differently with story.
Lets have a closer look at the story of frustration of the character:

"Well, you're not getting this. You’re full of shit – you’re not going to be able to fully understand this.” (My mind grasping at understanding it and conceptualizing/labeling what isn’t going to be able to be conceptualized.) Then I feel helpless and I tend to give up trying. I focus instead on the tasks at hand in this character’s life.

There is a thought of ´not getting something, followed by judgement/accusation, followed by a prediction, followed by a feeling called helplessness and another prediction/offer how to act.
Can this be a simple pattern? Repeating itself again and again? Same first thought, same procedure as usual, like a programme once started running through?
Watch this programme like a scientist. There is no entity who plays but yet all is acted out.
From what other situations do you know this programme? (Don't fall into the stories, it is just touch down and go!)
Where does this acting out happen?
Who does the acting?
Who is the one being frustrated?

Really literally embrace the frustration. Explore the programme, allow frustration - and simply enjoy the show!
Often there is something beneath frustration. Say Hi, Frustration. Interesting. Is there something behind/beneath you? Ah, let me see.
And then look. Be explorer, be loving, be gentle.

I think that I need to create some time for this every day or I too easily slip back into the story.

This can be a good idea, but stay light and easy.

Ah, and is there really a slipping out and back into a story?
Could this be a story too?

Love,
Jadzia

I sent you a pm.

[notsarah]

Hi.

I saw that you wrote that you sent me a pm. Where do I find it? 😃

[notsarah]

Hi Christina!

I just wanted to touch base with you and let you know how things are going. One thing about our Skype that has really stuck with me was when you mentioned that you don't plan things because they take care of themselves - and you don't worry about things because you know that they'll take care of themselves. I've found that to be really helpful from time to time when things appear to be stressful or painful. I'm able to relax a bit more - to just kind of go with it and watch with a degree of curiosity to see what is going to happen. It's been nice... so thanks for that. :)

[Jadzia]

The questions behind this are:
Is the I the planner, the doer, the decider?
Or is it story/thoughts which make belief?

It is always good to ask these questions again and again. It takes a while till it settles and for the time being looking if a decider can be found is good. How could this decider look like, where is it found, what does it wear - these kind of questions together with looking, really in the moment direct looking, is very helpful. :-D

Love
Jadzia

[notsarah]

So, is the body is just a story too? That's what it feels like. When I close my eyes there is no body... But it also seems tied to the DE - visual experience.

[notsarah]

Never mind... I already know the answer to this. :) I have a tournament today and my mind is very active... but I spent some time getting quiet and looking and I'm connecting back to what's real again.

[Jadzia]

It will become easier with the time and less effort is needed. But looking might be required for quite some time, there are various ways.

Have a good tournament!
Did you read my pm?

Love,
Jadzia

[Jadzia]

Hi,
as we talked about here are the questions. ´Take your time in answering and then we see if other guides point us on with questions or if we are done here in the forum. :-)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?

Love,
Jadzia

[notsarah]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. There was only a story that seemed completely real.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

It starts when we are little- we are taught words and we associate those words with sensations- we meld the two together and believe that they are the same thing. We meld the sensations together and believe they have to be related and that we are responsible for them. We identify with the name we are given and believe that the body is our vessel - that we live inside of it. We believe that we direct it and that what it does or what happens to it is caused by us. We then experience the world mostly as objects separate from ourself.

Now I see it as one thing - all experience exists within what I am... I do not exist within the objective world. I do not exist... the person is a relative story created to try to explain that which isn’t fathomable to the mind. I Am first, and the apparent plays out within and because of that unmoveable fact.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It is funny to see this - and it’s a great relief. I feel less tied to emotional swings; I am able to let things go more easily when they don’t match my preferences. My mind has periods of silence as I observe the experience- it tends to quiet down more frequently. When I do identify with the person I am less stung by any particular outcome (although I still have very strong preferences).

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The sense of this has been there for some time. My sister is experiencing something similar and had clearly had some shift in her understanding. I wanted to see what she seemed to be seeing. It reawakened my curiosity about this nagging sense of “this is not it” that I’ve had for some years now. The questions asked and the exercises introduced through the process created a clarified experience of it. They directed the focus and made it easy for me to see the incomplete assumptions I was making.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

These are all explanations that the mind creates to organize and make sense of experiences or sensations - and to establish that IT EXISTS when it actually doesn’t. When something happens the mind runs in after the fact and claims responsibility for whatever has just happened. For example, this body just scooted down the chair to relieve an ache. My mind says that I decided to do that - and then I executed that decision. I didn’t - it just happened. The body moved - end of story. I don’t know how it works - this apparent world is unimaginably complex... to manage all of the details in the story is literally mind blowing. I am not responsible for anything - what I am is before objects... responsibility doesn’t apply to it. Responsibilities are part of duality- cause and effect. What I am has no cause.

6) Anything to add?

There is awareness of a peace and solidity that comes and goes that is extremely welcome. I’m very grateful ♥️

[Jadzia]

Here a question from me:

I Am first, and the apparent plays out within and because of that unmoveable fact.

Can you elaborate what you mean by that?

Within? What within?
Within points to two, a within and a without?

Love,
Jadzia