Seeking no more.

[DWThomas]

The confusion comes when there are thoughts arising, sensations happening and the belief that they are mine. From this sense of mine, reason says that there has to be a me for there to be a mine. But, when I look for me, there is nothing to be found.

[Matthew]

Right. This is all good. It goes around in circles and collides with itself many times.
Until at some point, it will simply be over and clear.
So let it go around in circles and collide with itself as often as necessary.


You know what to do, when the request is to look at something.
You stop. You don't go into thinking. You simply observe and recognise what is present in this very moment at this very place.
By way of that, you also recognise, what is absent and non-existent.

The confusion comes when there are thoughts arising

What exactly in present experience is confused by thought?

[DWThomas]

Confusion. It seems that when thoughts arise in present moment that they can lead to a train of thoughts, beliefs, perceptions, or sensations that lead the mind out of the present moment into the past with memory or the imagination of a future. Thoughts arise: "I have to go to the doctor this morning followed by a memory (more thoughts) of past doctor visits switching to thoughts about what may or may not happen. " (more thoughts).

[Matthew]

lead the mind out of the present moment

What exactly is a mind?
How exactly is it actually experienced?
Can it be experienced?
Does it even exist?
If so, please describe exactly, how it is experienced. Describe its colour, shape and form!


You really have to LOOK on basis of each question!

lead the mind out of the present moment into the past with memory or the imagination of a future

WHEN do thoughts about the past arise?
WHEN do thoughts about the future arise?

[DWThomas]

The mind conceptually is a collection of thoughts. But, when I look for or at the mind, it does not exist. It has no form, color, etc. Nothing is there and then a thought arises, passes and returns to nothing. A train of thoughts are just individual thoughts arising in the moment.

Thoughts of a past or an imagined future arise in present moment only.

[Matthew]

The mind conceptually is a collection of thoughts.

We're not insterested in any of those nasty concepts.

But, when I look for or at the mind, it does not exist.

Now THAT we are intersted in. Very well!
That's an authentic insight right there!

Nothing is there and then a thought arises, passes and returns to nothing. A train of thoughts are just individual thoughts arising in the moment.

Also that!

Thoughts of a past or an imagined future arise in present moment only.

And that no less.
Very good so far.

Now let's look a little closer here.

thoughts, beliefs, perceptions, or sensations that lead the mind out of the present moment

So it is not "the mind" which is lead out of the present moment, right?

But what then?
Now focus.
Getting closer.
Look directly at that, which is apparently lead out of the present moment.
What can you find? What exactly?
Something concrete?
Or just more thoughts?
What can you find?

[DWThomas]

There appears to be no leading out of the present moment. Just more thoughts arising in the present moment being labelled as thoughts of the future, which are actually just more thoughts arising in the present moment.

[Matthew]

What can you find?

There appears to be no leading out of the present moment.

So what you really find is nothing?
Or no one?

[DWThomas]

No, there appears to be nothing or no one.

[Matthew]

How does it feel to see this?

[DWThomas]

Empty.

[Matthew]

Raw experience devoid of a subject.
And even if a sense of subjectivity arises, even that is clearly experienced.

Was is that what you came here for?
Or does it feel like there is something missing?
If so, what is missing?

[DWThomas]

Yes, it seems like during the experiencing there seems to be some thing that is experiencing and some thing that is experienced. A sense of separation.

[Matthew]

You're saying it yourself.
It is only a sense.
There is no real separation.

some thing that is experiencing

Look at that place, where this "thing" supposedly sits.
What can be seen there?

[DWThomas]

Yes, any attempt to find a me is not successful. Just thoughts.